Heroin withdrawal questions [Archive]

miffy

03-06-2005, 23:07

Firstly - Hello! It's not actually my first post, but pretty close to
it - I let my membership lapse, and have just re-registered. Anyway, Hi
to all!

My problem :

I've been on that lovely ole heroin for about 6 years now, off and on
(mostly on). It went the same way it did for most people, I think - did
all the other drugs, and dived into gear, as it's known in these parts,
as soon as it came along. Started smoking, and about eighteen months
ago started injecting - partly for $$$ reasons, partly for the buzz.

During that time, I've come off a few times, in various ways.

In the first couple of years, when I was just smoking it, I did a
couple of cold-turkey (why do they call it that!!??)
withdrawals, the last of which was pretty bad. Then came off on a
methodone reduction over 3 months, and stayed off for a year (moved
abroad). Since I've been injecting, I've been on a couple of programs -
came off on subutex over 3 weeks. This was about a year ago, and I
started using again as soon as the subutex stopped - so it only lasted
3 weeks. Then I went on methodone. Didn't really stabalise on it, even.
Managed to get my using down to about once every 5 days - which was
brilliant progress for me - just not enough, not fast enough for the
guys at the clinic, who stopped my 'script. That was about 3 months
ago, and I've been using ever since.

I think part of the reason I've always ultimately failed in all
of my attempts to come off has been that some part of me has enjoyed
doing gear. Whatever the reasons for this - partly self-destruction,
partly buzz, I think - they've always led me to start up again.

I'm now really feeling that enough's enough. I want to stop. All of me,
I think, although the only way to know if I can stay clean is to see
what happens. Still, I really think I've had enough. I'm depressed much
of the time, my girlfriend's had enough of my habit, she's splitting up
with me, and I can't blame her! I'm finding it really hard to get a
decent vein, so I've got hurty little lumps all over me. . . whinge,
whine, etc!

Also, I've really messed up my budget for this month, and it's going to
be really difficult, maybe impossible to pay for it until the end of
the month (when I'm paid). I've never robbed to pay for my habit - I'm
an office worker - and I'm not going to start now.

I would like to try another subutex detox - I think I've got what it
takes to stay off for good this time. Trouble is, after my recent
failure with the methodone, the people at the clinic are very reluctant
to treat me. I'm trying to win them round, but even if they do agree to
take me back, it won't be for a couple of months - and I don't know if
I can hold out that long.

So it looks as though I might have to go it alone. Something I'm pretty scared of.

Which I s'pose brings me to my questions. . .

Last time I went cold-turkey (I keep thinking of shivering poultry!)
was when I had a smoking habit, and it was nasty, about 3 days of real
illness, then a week where I couldn't really leave the flat, and aches
and pains for a further month or so.

But this time, I have an injecting habit, and I'm probably using more, too.

(I live in the UK, if that's relevant)

I can try to reduce my consumption somewhat, but only for a few days. I
find it really hard to keep it low when I still have gear about. But,
if I can cut down to half of my regular dose for a few days prior to
the final big 'STOP!' - will it make the withdrawal any easier, when I
finally get down to it?

How long can I expect the withdrawal process to last?

And is there anything I can take / do to make it any easier?

Sorry about the long post - if you've managed to read all that, thanks!
And if you have any advice, information or personal experience -
anything that might help - I'd be really grateful!

Cheers!Edited by: miffy

Creeping Death

03-06-2005, 23:46

Withdrawal from smack can last 2 weeks, more or less.

I have no experience with heroin, but i find that the best way to cut down on a dangerous drug is to slowly substitute it with safer ones. Plan your whole withdrawal period out.

Stock up on weed, valium, anti-nausea medicine, anything that you feel can help ease your situation.

Do not go cold turkey instantly from a high dosage of H. Every week you should take less and less heroin, and more and more marijuana and/or valium. I hope this will help you out a bit, but i've never used heroin myself. And from what i hear, it's very hard no matter what to get off it and stay off it.

greener

04-06-2005, 23:14

It sounds like you're doing a small taper, which will likely make it
easier to stop... As for withdrawal, it's going to suck no matter
what, but it WILL end. I learned that anything even moderately
stimulating (even caffeine) made me feel 45,000 times worse during
WD. You'll want something to sleep, as well, because that goes
right out the window for a lot of people... Benzos can be good
for this, but be careful not to simply take them in lieu of H, as the
withdrawal from benzos is even worse. (SWIM had seizures for
about 3 days, and didn't sleep for about 6.) If alcohol is okay
with you, that can help cut down on some of the vile feelings...
For diarreah, large doses (8-12 mg) of loperamide (Immodium in the US,
could be the same in UK... It's over-the-counter) can help, and
might even affect the withdrawals, as it is opiate derived.

Some people claim to find a great deal of help by taking DXM or very
large doses of Vitamin C, and there certainly is evidence that these
things can be helpful, so it won't hurt.

Truth is, nothing is going to make it easy except having it end, and
the only way to truly end it is to make it through. It should run
about the same time frame as your previous experience, though the
intensity might vary a bit...

Best of luck to you, let us know how you do.

miffy

06-06-2005, 00:41

Thanks, people - I guess I'm just scared, and hoped someone would say
"No, take this *magic* pill, and it'll be totally painless|!"

I've got maybe 3 days, maybe a week to reduce as steeply as I can, then
it'll be the end of my resources - I could probably beg / borrow money
to drag it out for another few days, maybe until I get paid - but
that'll only mean I end up in the same place again, next month. . .

And, the truth is that, although I'm really not looking forward to the journey, I really wanna get there.

Thanks, and I'll try to underindulge over the next few days - rather
than just have 2 days of doing really fat hits, then suddenly run out!

Cheers!

(btw - what's DXM? I've never heard of it (am in the UK - maybe we don't have it here?)

greener

06-06-2005, 08:55

DXM is the short name for Dextromethophan, which in the US is commonly
used as an OTC cough remedy. I believe it's legal in the
UK... Here, it's found in things like Robotussin, Vicks 44, and
pretty much any other cough syrup. If possible, you need to make
sure that whatever preparation you're buying has Dextromethorphan as
the ONLY ingredient. To help with WD, you'll want to take about
3x the reccomended dose, and if there's other stuff in there, you'll
just end up feeling worse. Best of luck...

Eirias

06-06-2005, 13:51

Find out about ibogaine. If you go into the experience
with intention, not only will it cease your WD symtoms, it can also
help eliminate cravings, at least for enough time for you to reflect on
you lifestyle and decide where to go from there.

Subbies work well for a pain-free withdrawl, but once they are
no longer being taken it seems like relapse is a frequent occurance.

miffy

08-06-2005, 11:26

Many thanks to people for their suggestions.

So far, I’ve been trying to cut down, and succeeding for a few days –
then I just binge for one big hit, and I’m back where I started. . .
I’m going to have to step it down for a couple of weeks, though, ‘cos
I’m certainly not going to make it through to pay-day if I keep doing
this!

If I can manage without having to stop cold, then I shall – if I can
get by on a quarter of what I’m currently on, I should be able to make
it to the end of the month. I spoke to my doctor yesterday, who offered
me a ‘supervised’ 21 day subutex detox, followed by naltrexone.

I’ve done the subutex thing before, and found that I relapsed only
about 2 days after finishing the detox! I think I’ve got a great deal
more determination, this time, though – I’m really keen to be off at
the moment, really feeling trapped by the habit. Which is when it’s
time to stop. I’m looking forward to all the things you do when you’re
clean – holidays, sex, ecstasy – that sorta thing!

Anyway – in the meantime I have to stick to a very strict reduction schedule.

I'm gonna have to check out DXM - sounds as though I'd have to be a bit
careful about contraindications? I take antidepressants, so I'll check
carefully.

Thanks for all the suggestions – ibogaine sounds really interesting,
I’ve never heard anything about it before. Does anyone have any
experience of it?

(Oops - actually, I've just seen there's a thread on ibogaine!)

Edited by: miffy

Yassy

08-06-2005, 19:32

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gifhi! this is my first post,,i'v been clean for 4 yrs off that shit and i'm loving it,,i went through all the things and feelings you talk about and its no life is it,,existing for your next fixhttp://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif

i tried everything,,,and usally got to day 3 and thought ideserved a little"treat" back to square 1,,,

i ende up losing my 2 beautiful children and family living with a violent man(father of kiddies) in a dirty flat with a "conspiricy to suppy" charge hanging over me

ended up taking alot of sleepers and callingkids social worker saying i'd had enough of life and was O.D-ing(which i hadnt)i was then admitted to a clean mental ward(i was the sainest person there)they then seen my situation as a priority got me into a rehab which put me on a meth withdrawal(12 days, i should have said i was addicted to sleepers as they only gave them to people who were and i would have slept better) that was the start of my new life,,yes i tripped up a few times but i had people around me who wanted me clean and they helped lots,,if there are any N/A meetings in your area go to them its not about God,,its about recovery,,

good luck and take care

Explotation

09-06-2005, 02:01

Dude you got this, I think your mentality is half of the battle. Just think/imagine what it will be like after you don't have to stab yourself just get through the day.

miffy

10-06-2005, 12:10

Thanks, people - it's really good to hear from people who've come out
on the 'other side' - it's good to know there's a life out there, and
it's a better one!

I know that there is, and I know that I'm actually happier when I'm
clean - it's just the trouble I have getting to that point. Once the
physical cravings stop, I find that I'll get really depressed, that
life seems really empty and boring without the gear.

I know that once I get past that, I'm fine - about 4 years ago, I managed to stay off for a year, and it was great.

Well, I'm cutting down at the moment, it's only been a few days but I'm
already using less. I'm going to keep reducing (finances necessitate
that!) until the end of the month, and then I should have the subutex
coming up. Phew! I can't wait . . .

miffy

15-06-2005, 00:29

Just to update anyone who might be interested - I'm s'posed to be
starting a subutex detox in about 3 weeks. I spoke to my old keyworker
a few days ago, and he reckons he might be able to fit me in about 3
weeks from now - it'll be a 21 day subutex detox, starting on about
6mg, peaking after 3 days on about 8 or 10mg, then reducing rapidly to
about 2mg after a week, then 1, then down to zero. The whole process
is, as I said, 21 days, followed by a gap of about a week where I'm on
nothing(!) - then, after that week, I'll start on Naltrexone -
which I've never tried before, but it sounds just what I need to
prevent relapse.

I'm really lucky to get this opportunity so rapidly, considering the
state of the services in my part of the UK, and the length of
waiting-lists. Last time I went on treatment it took about 4 months
from the moment I first walked in off the street to the point where
treatment started - which is hopeless, considering that many people
leave it until it's their only option, and it's too late for anything
else. . .

Anyway, if anyone's interested, I'll update on what goes on.

Muirner

15-06-2005, 00:49

Do update, but u should check out Ibocaine (sp?) it is supposed to be real good with recovery. I'll search it up on here and post later

Muirner

miffy

15-06-2005, 01:05

Yeah - there's a thread in this forum, I think. From what I've read
(only there) it sounds brilliant - the mythical miracle-cure, no more
habit & increased self-awareness.

I've never heard of it elsewhere, though, outside of these forums.
Maybe it would be called something different in the UK? I'll try to
remember to ask my keyworker, and see if he's heard of it - I'll post
it, if he knows anything.

jimdandy

16-06-2005, 01:43

i'm not too sure about ibogaine,i think you have to be motivated. i met a whole bunch of dope fiends in thailand who'd tried it and were still dpoe fiends.

speaking of thailand anyone out there been to the mythical thamkrabok monastery/rehab? i did a stint there, what a fuckin sad sad place that was. locked up in a tiny room with 200 withdrawing junkies, most with aids, some full blown, a tiny open crapper in the middle of the room-monks beating the shit out of inmates, i mean patients, with bamboo sticks. they didn't beat me cuz they don't beat foreigners anymore, a few months before i got there they had beaten a german patient to death and there was a bit of an embassy fuss, so the policy since has been don't beat the farangs. it was the closest thing i've seen to a medieval prison.

picpic

16-06-2005, 20:29

Immodine helps alot, it's an anti-diarrea medicine also an opiate but it doesn't cause euphoria or pain killing effects. I think it's in the same family with fentanyl. Give it a try, many people swear by it, they call it over the counter Methadone.

miffy

19-06-2005, 01:39

jimdandy - ewww! That place sounds like a nightmare! An ex of mine
keeps telling me she thinks I should go there, thinks I need
discipline! I don't think she really knows the score (although she was
brilliant in helping me to get & stay off while we were together) -
and keep telling her that, when you're really sick, you need life
to be as easy and soft as possible. . . not even harder - I feel so
much sympathy for people coming off in such places - prisons, etc - and
really hope (touch wood!) it never happens to me. . .

I'll maybe try the anti-diarrhoea thing - when I'm sick, my guts give me hell!

The situation at the moment is that I'm hopefully starting on thew
subbie detox in 2 weeks - but the clinic hasn't 'approved' it yet, so
they may still refuse to treat me on account of my previous failures
(one on subutex, two methodone). I've got my fingers crossed, and am
trying to push it through. . . I'm really poor 'til pay day so I'm
scraping by on what little bits of gear I can buy, beg, borrow &
blag. . . (I've never ripped anyone off tho). . . and I'm really
looking forward to being clean - thinking of all the things I can do
with the extra money. . .

OiledMandible

19-06-2005, 21:35

As others have said, look into Ibogaine. Unfortunately I was not
aware of it during withdrawal (For a year I had access to as much
vicodin as I wanted, any time, for free. Then my source got into
mucho trouble...all of a sudden, nothing.) A friend of mine
swears by Ibogaine, says it helped him like nothing else!

English_T

20-06-2005, 16:33

i live in the uk and am on a meth script that has been going on and off for 5 years, i have used for 9. I have no veins in my arms now and have to shoot in the groin. It is a a great drug at first but , in the end, takes much, much more than what it will ever deliver.

I still use smack about once a week in snowballs but mainly use crack now. However, my counsellor knows exactly how much i use because i tell her she doesn't mind as long as i am honest with. thus their is no stress and have found it easy to reduce. these guys that kick you off are fucking idiots , with no common sense at all.

ukt

jimdandy

21-06-2005, 01:22

fuck meth, fuck it all-day three of withdrawl.

i used to say i have no regrets, but right now i sure as hell regret having ever touched that shit (junk). tis said god works in misterious ways, so i'm hoping there's a reason for this, something i have to learn and cherish (beyond, duh don't pick up)

the prob with meth is you never get out of it-you're choosing the dark side.

fuck!

jimdandy

21-06-2005, 01:24

double post, sorry brain not working very well-deleted the last one

but yeah fuck it

and this is about the millionth time i'm doing this, what the fuck's the natter with me?Edited by: jimdandy

miffy

21-06-2005, 13:48

Yeah - too right - that was partly what went wrong with me & meth.
I wanted to see some changes happening, they wanted to stablise me -
and after 3 months, I still had the same habit. I'm s'posed to be
starting the subutex in about 10 days now, followed by naltrexone.

(I get paid in about 8 days, so might have one last blow-out - even though you're really not s'posed to!)

jimdandy

22-06-2005, 01:54

day four-hangin in there, feeling better than the last 3 days. one temgesic left for tonight-but they are only .2mg of buprenorphine, wheras i here that they dose you on 2-8mg of the subutex (which is buprnorphine) in the us, so i'm not sure if the temgesic has been all that helpful, perhaps a bit psychologically. anyways it wasn't much of a run so it hasn't been nearly as hellish as other withdrawls.

has anyone noticed any difference between kicking different types of h? i've pretty much only done the white/beige stuff all my life, and those withdrawls were way worse than coming off the black tar-but then again i was doing way way more over longer periods of time...

could it be that kicking the tar is easier? a brief opium habit seemed to be even worse than this...

and is tar really that much worse on the wear and tear of the body?

miffy

22-06-2005, 12:06

Nice one mate - stick with it! You should be just about over the worst
now, it'll start getting easier. Loadsa respect for someone who can do
that!

I've never had black tar (I'm in the UK) - round here, people only get
brown, prolly about 10% - 16%. I hear that tar causes abscesses much
more than brown.

When I've come off on Subutex, they started me on 8mg the first day, 10
the second, then 12 for day 3. Back down to 10, then
8,8,6,6,4,4,3,3,2,2,etc over about 21 days.

kathinthehat

26-06-2005, 21:16

is there even withdrawl symptomsafter usingH only once or twice?

bowlingforcindy

04-07-2005, 15:03

is there even withdrawl symptoms*after using*H only once or twice?

i suppose itd be like having a really bad comdown, like when i have pills , ket etc, i feel sick for the net day, and fine the day after, then depressed for a couple days after that.

i tihnk with h youdjust feel really sick and ill for a couple or more days, and after that youd be fine, thats if your not addicted. but if your addicted, youd be raving for more and your body would want more.

but if its your first time youl be alright, as long as you dont do onstant for a few days, that will get you hooked i think. thats what happened to my m8. he got off it though.

miffy

05-07-2005, 13:39

Yeah, I've had mates tell me that if they've never had a habit and done
it once or twice, that it's just a comedown the next day or so. bowlingforcindy's
right, though - once you've had a habit, your body remembers it. You
can be clean for years, then have just a couple of hits and be right
back in the thick of it - habits come sneaking back in if you leave the
door open at all. 
 
Me, I'm hoping to start the subutex
on the 12th (fingers crossed) if the various services I have to go
through can get it together. Crazily, they don't seem to cater for
people who have jobs - I'll have to pick up the subutex daily, from a
specific pharmacy, which is open only 9-5. As I work out of town, the
earliest I can get back is 1845 - so it looks as though I'm going to
have to ask my doctor to sign me off for 3 weeks. All well and good, if
he agrees to, but my boss already isn't happy about the about of time
off I've been having - habits, when they get bad, tend to interfere
with work. And I've been taking time off to go to various medicals etc
for the subbie script. We'll have to see. . . hopefully, I come out of
this both clean & still having a job. Fingers crossed. . .

bowlingforcindy

08-07-2005, 01:12

hows it goin anyway miffy, still trying i hope, remember everyone on this forum supports you, friends etc.

how longs it take to get addicted miffy, if you do it 3 days on end, are you in trouble then?

bowlingforcindy

08-07-2005, 01:17

whats your job miffy, do you work while high on h . does your boss know.

shotgun

18-07-2005, 20:49

Good luck miffy...

Dont give in to temptation, you sound like a smart guy and i would love to hear about your success when it happens...

Be strong, if you want to be clean you owe it to yourself to keep
trying. Dont go through all this pain for nothing... You may feel like
crap, but you have to remember that the more H you do, the longer you
will suffer. 1 small hit may make you feel better for a few hours, but
you'll be sick for an extra day or 3. Dont torture yourself.

And try to do some fun things (not drugs or anything/anywhere you may
find them) to get your mind off it... Maybe start a sport or something
(i'd recommend a martial art. will be good for your health and
discipline... karate helped me a lot). Make your life enjoyable without
the gear.

Kill the monkey.

Ramm

20-07-2005, 16:02

Hey Miffy,

Hope you are gettin past the bottom -I injected for almost 3 years off and on (chipped). It was hard to give up that buzz - you know like the first 30 seconds of it but I did it Cold Turkey. I fell off the wagon a cuple of dozen times but finally quit - it was destroying me and I hated the depression. I still love to get highwith alcohol and valium.

I layed in bed for approx 3 days, took flu medicine and that was my method. Everyone is different I think you must really want to quit and stay away from the junkies you hang with.When you stay in that environment its impossible to quit. You'll get there and tell all those pencil pushers they better stay outta your way!! http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

miffy

12-08-2005, 13:21

'Ello all. . .

Okay, an update :

I managed to stick out the 21-day subutex detox thing. . . wasn't as
painless as I'd remembered, but could have been worse. I could walk
about by day 4, which certainly wouldn't have happened without the
subutex.

However, I relapsed a bit at the end of the 21 days . . . don't
know why, really - I think I was just sick of feeling sick. Went back
on the brown for about 5 days, and realised I'd pretty much got a habit
again, and that I had to stop before I no longer could . . . so, got
out of town for a week, stayed in a van with some hippy mates and
discovered that ketamine makes the withdrawal easier (until the next
day, anyway).

Came back from that on Monday, and promptly scored. Hopeless, why do I do it!?

However, I managed to keep it as a one-off, and didn't do it again the
next day. Today, Friday, I can still feel it in my system - you know
that nasty sorta-rushing feeling, like you've taken a couple of bad
ecstasies? Yep, it's still going on, but I'm hoping it'll be a little
better each day. All I need to do now is stay off the gear!

I'm supposed to be starting naltrexone in about 10 days, so if I can stay off until then, that'll help.

In answer to bowlingforcindy, it took me
about 2 months to get addicted, back when I was smoking. In fact, I'd
be on it for a month, not be able to score, and be surprised when I
never got sick. Then one day, after doing it every day for a couple of
months, I couldn't score and I did get sick. . . not a very nice
surprise.

Re. my job, I can't say exactly, 'cos I work for a website & it doesn't seem very smart to post it up here! But - my boss
is pretty understanding. About a month ago, I decided I'd had enough
making excuses, so I just told the truth - "Yup, I'm a junkie, and I'm
not going to be at work this month, 'cos I'll be really sick. Okay?".
Was interested to see if I'd get sacked or not - and so far, I haven't.

This has the additional advantage that if I come into work off my head, I'll lose me job - so I have to try not to. . .

Hope life's treatin y'all schweet!

Edited by: miffy

miffy

20-09-2005, 17:37

Another update : On methodone again(!). . . illicitly obtained, this
time, as there's no chance of treatment services seeing me within 3
months of my last relapse.

Have come down from about 45ml to 7.5 ml in about 2 weeks . . . which
was pretty brutal. But it's the last few ml that are really starting to
hurt.

Ho hum. Fingers crossed. . .

Be-Bop

02-10-2005, 19:53

Shit, i just lost a long post to ya Miffy (don't know how? It came up with 'reformat post'- i pressed cancel & poof, gone- oh well) But here is the bones of it (again)......I have kicked many, many times tho' i am currently an 'active' user, but i just wanted to give you some words of advice & encouragement..when i was younger i used to take the 'get as fucked up as possble to try & sleep' thing (not being able to sleep is the thing that always really fucks with me!)..alcohol (lots), benzos, pot, not eating, going out & picking up strange women, getting into weird situations etc etc..but i have realised that doing this just weakens you even more physically & (more importantly) mentally...there is NO way around the fact that you are going to have to suffer, & the more you can accept this fact, the easier it seems to be...the fact is that you have disrupted your brains production of endorphins & you are going to have to wait for them to come back 'on-line'. The best thing you can do is make sure that you are in a comfortable place with no extra pressures on you, make sure you eat (even if you don't want to..), try & go for a walk every day, & start excercising when you feel able (swimming..i've found the gym REALLY good in getting your endorphins pumping..), take care of yourself, shower etc. Most importantly, the longer you have ANY kind of opiate in your system the longer it will drag on for..this includes methadone, subutex, naltrexone (i know it is an antagonist, still..), any of the OTC suggestions..as isaid, you are going to feel like shit & not sleep & all of that but so much of the rationale of using is the avoidance of pain, but this time you have to stop running, turn around & face the the storm & let it wash over you& just wait for the rain to subside (if you know what i mean?)..there is no way around it, trying will only lead you down blind alleys..concentrate on what you want from your life when you are clean, every day that you don't use is a day closer to being ABSOLUTELY clean, but it's going to take time! Even tho' i think a lot of the 12 step shit is shit, that doesn't mean probably the best people to have around you are those that have been there but are now DOING good stuff that is denied to you when you are using...try & find a good meeting that is not too full of all the RIGHTEOUS 12 step people & 12 step speak, but it can be really inspiring to be reminded that it is possble!! & having people that UNDERSTAND! The last two things i wanted to say were, be careful with 'slipping up' if you have been clean even for just a week, i have known SOOO(well, probably 6-8)many people who have been clean a short time, get drunk, think "Fuck it.." go out & score & 10 minutes later are DEAD!!!! But more importantly, remember that there are people all over the world that are wishing you the best & that really want you to succeed, you will be suprised how quickly good things start to happen, & the support you will get from quarters that you didn't expect!...anyway..GOOD LUCK!!! Be-Bop, http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif > http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif!!!!!

Be-Bop

02-10-2005, 20:37

Some stuff i forgot to add, looking through the thread again..shit so much that you say is so familiar..looking for that 'magic bullet', going away & then scoring as soon as you get back to that Dirty ol' Town..there's something about coming back into town..mmmmm, that excitement that you don't even dare admit to yourself....(i tell myself i will not go/ even as i arrive there- BIG BLACK) All this stuff about other drugs to take the edge off..IT WON'T WORK..think about it..if you are still stuck in your groove of 'taking' something to 'feel' better, in the end it is inevitable that you are going to use..why..coz gear is so much fucking better! .....Methodone is just plain fucking evil- i can't believe they prescribe it when it is so much worse than heroin! Same with the 'going away' thing (if it is only for a short time) i think it just reinforces the idea that away from the city is 'NO DRUGS', & conversely reurning to the city is 'DRUGS'. As much as this is a thing you mightn't want to hear- have you thought that you might really need to completely change your life? I mean i think it can be hard to not use when everything else in your life is the same..same flat, same job, same feelings to contend with etc etc But at the same time, you can look at this as a comforting thought, you are not stuck in your life..you could always go into a long term rehab, pack up& go overseas ( shit i knew a girl who got on a plane to Canada with a 180mg methadone habit, plus she was using two grammes+ of pure a day- i kid you not, & she made it, & stayed drug free!)..Don't feel trapped, you are not!! You DO have options..ones that you may never of thought of! The other thing i forgot to say is in reference to the comments you made re. 'Why do i go back when i have got off?" Two things, your addiction is clever & patient...when you are on methadone/subutex you might not be shooting up, but your body is still getting it's opiates, so as far as its concerned things might be a bit tight, but things are still 'normal', & when you finally take that last dose your brain will come up with every slippery reason to get you to take up that needle again, & it is very patient....the other thing is that i have often thought that 'getting off' is kinda the easy part coz you still have opiates as the main thing in your life (even tho' it is in a negative sense), the difficult part comes once the pain starts to lift & you don't have opiates to 'obsess' over anymore-What's going to fill that hole? This is where you have to think about WHAT YOU WANT? Just wanting the absence of heroin won't work- there has to be something that you want to replace it with! Not a different drug, not going out & getting fucked up drunk, but some passion that lies unexpressed within you- your obviously a smart guy, is working on a web site what you want to do? What's your dream? Fuck off the drugs & LIVE IT!!! Fucking go for it! I know every person here would love you to do it! love from me!http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif

apsaras6

18-10-2005, 07:35

suboxone

miffy

18-10-2005, 13:31

Thanks to Be-Bop for the words of wisdom - I've found most of these
things by trial and error (shame I didn't have someone to tell me that
years ago!).

It's going okay at the moment - I've not used for about 10 days, and
that was the only time in the past 3 weeks. So that's not bad - for me,
certainly. I've been doing a detox (not thru a clinic, tho) using
Physeptone pills x5mg and DFs - have come down from about 60mg
Physeptone daily to about 5mg. The DFs I was doing by the handful, and
am now on one or two a day. And - most importantly - I'm feelling
pretty positive about staying off.

Trouble is, it's too easy to score, in the city in which I live.

Be-Bop's absolutely right in saying that it's crucial to make
everything as comfortable as possible for oneself during a detox. This
has been a bit tricky for me, as I live in a truck, and it's getting
pretty cold here. I'm going to indulge myself and get a room in a house
for the winter - I've used before just to keep myself warm (or feeling
warm, anyway) and I don't wanna be doing that.

The other point - about having to give up opiates sooner or later
anyway - is so true - I've been putting it off a bit with this rapid
detox. Trouble is - I've messed up so much this past year that I can't
just take a week off work and be sick - I've got to be well enough to
at least turn up every day - even if I don't do anything (crazy innit).
Anyway - I'm down to 5mg today, then it's 2.5 tomorrow. Then nothing -
and I'll see how it goes. I'm feeling okay with it, though - looking
forward.

Be-Bop

18-10-2005, 16:04

Fuck...so glad to hear from you Miffy!! Have been thinking of you regular during the last two weeks, & wondering how things were going for you?

It's SO TOUGH, all the stuff that you are attempting...& all your going through....but remember, failure is only sure when you give up!!! DON'T be down on yourself any time that you 'slip', if addiction wasn't a psychology CHARACTERIZED BY RELAPSE it wouldn't be such a problem for so many of us!!!! Just keep on heading in the right direction..even when it seems hard to see the 'logic', or 'goal' in your journey...don't castigate yourself for having an addiction..I know it has taken me a lot of years to get over seeing myself as a 'failure' for using. And i don't even mean consciously..i have always been a very loud advocate for USER'S RIGHTS etc...but i think that may have even been driven by a sneaking suspicion that i was 'weak'..a weakness demonstrated by my habit...i no longer think like this..

I don't know why some of us end up with this DEMON relationship, i don't understand why???...I can't offer any comprehensive explanation...but for no reason that i can verbalize...I KNOW IN MY SOUL THAT WE ARE GOOD PEOPLE, & NO LESS THAN ANYONE ELSE! (some junkies, i know, make an absolute lie of all of the above..but still...)

I just hope so much that you can be kind to youself Miffy...it's obvious that you are a smart & sensitive person,& i hope that you can find whatever the secret code is that will unlock that PASSION that can help you make sense of the journey that you are on...

FUCKING "GOOD LUCK BUDDY!!!", & feel free to PM me whenever you like...i like a chat..

Be-Bop. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gifhttp://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gif http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gif

PS. glad to hear that your ok....

cavalera

18-10-2005, 16:08

i think you just need a hug, and maybe a pint http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif

Be-Bop

18-10-2005, 16:33

INDEED Cavalera...since your closer, give Miffy a hug from me too!!! & a pint..i'll have to post you the money..it's in the mail, honest!

cavalera

19-10-2005, 14:07

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif***HUG!***

wovotom

21-10-2005, 16:34

gud luk miffy,tho ive never used myself i've seen alot of the effects of a junk habit as a m8 of mine deals the shite!!!!DONT use other drugs to substitute,i had a bad(tho its not comparison)dope & alcohol problem,smoking between £50-100 of bud in a day.their are people who can help & no matter how bad you feel rememberin about a month you will have the money to get a place & treat yourslef & not have those painful bruises around ya veins.

anyway gud luk bud

apsaras6

21-10-2005, 17:56

I am on suboxone not subutex and I think along with many of my freinds that it is the wonder drug. I have no craving for dope at all. I am clear headed and suffer no depression. My Dr. said many people are on it indefianately, just like someone taking an antidepresant for depression or any other psychiatric condition. It is very new in the states I first tried it two years ago and it didn't help, I also started on the subutex which is a straight opiate. The suboxone is 8mg.5and a half mg of buprenorphine and 2 and a half of naltroxone (I am pretty sure). I am prescribed 2 8mg a day but usually only take 1 (sell the other ones) it is hard to get an appointment with the very few Drs. permitted to prescribe them they are only allowed a 30 person patient load. I think they need to change a few of the rules governing this. As for the withdrawl - none to moderate for a day maybe two everyone is different. Look into it, it has saved my life and my boyfriends.

Be-Bop

21-10-2005, 21:12

I don't want to burst anyone's 'bubble'...but if you re on any sort of 'substitute' therapy...whether it's Methadone, or Buprenorphine (which i agree is a lot more 'clear',& doesn't make you feel as if you are on any sort of Opiate), or even an Opiate antagonist, such as Naltrexone..you are still 'dealing' with the fact that you have disrupted your Endorphin system by continueing to alter it!! As far as your body is concerned your still 'getting it, & getting it steady' (thanks Uncle Bill)...if there truely is no withdrawal, or, 'none to moderate', WHY do some people stay on it indefinately? Coz they enjoy the daily trips to the Chemist? Try stopping, & see what happens? Most of the people i have known, & there has been A LOT, usually end up using again within a week-month of stopping whatever program they are on, Methadone, Buprenorphine, Naltrexone...the only way to really stop using Opiates..if that's what you really want to do..is to STOP USING OPIATES, & let your brain, & your endorphin system slowly recover it's equilibriam...& that takes TIME!!!

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A QUICK 'FIX'

Be-Bop. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gifhttp://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley8.gifhttp://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley15.gif

miffy

24-10-2005, 16:37

Thanks to all - it's really good to get some encouragement.

I came off the medication 5 days ago and relapsed - once - on Saturday,
2 days ago. I'm really feeling the results of that, today, though - I
don't seem to have the fortitude to go on being sick any longer. I'm
afraid I'm prolly going to finish work and try to borrow some money off
a friend, score. Short term solution, I know, but I hate feeling like
this. It probably won't happen anyway - I've already blown out most of
my mates. I just can't bear the idea of another few days sick in the
back of a damp van. Got to sort this out!

I'll get there. In the end.

wovotom

25-10-2005, 17:13

DONT score!!!!really just sit it out,if somebodies willing to lend you money im sure their willing to give you a place to stay to at least have a comfortable surrounding to deal with the withdrawal's. serious coming on & coming off are still using,you are back to sqaure one now buddy dont stay there,because nobody has said it yet but how much longer do you think your body can take your addiction!!!!if you dont stop you will die or end up a mere shadow of your former self & keep ypur job it gives you stability.

come on bud you wana qiut?????then do it,i've known heavy users who've managed to qiut after using copious amounts for years!!!dont give up when your sooo close bud

miffy

11-11-2005, 17:41

Just in case anyone's interested - the whole cycle's just going round
again. . . I've been off for about a week on Psyceptone, this time,
after reaching that point with the brown where I just hate everything
about it - it doesn't take me long to get there, these days. Still,
it's Friday night, and I'm pretty sure that, whether I want to or not,
I'll end up scoring after work. And then the guilt kicks in the next
day (or the next month, sometimes one hit leads to another) and I'm
back on the detox thing. . .

This may seem pretty boring - I've been on about my on / off detox
thing since June. . . but it's not as bad as living it - I've been
doing this for about 7 or 8 years now. . .

Ho hum.

bonghed

13-11-2005, 22:51

Well, i hope you manage it, but you (i think) have to want to quit 100% to avoid relapsing a 1 off every couple months, And i'm not sure if you do.

I don't think your 1 of "them" but somepeople miss the comfort of being sad, hard to explain what i mean, any way, if you'd like a chat pm me, although i got a few problems of my own, i'll try n sound positive

Jatelka

13-11-2005, 23:57

Also their is another version of subutex which contains what you mentioned (nax) which stops subutex being abused

It's called Subuxone: Buprenorphine + Naloxone.

miffy

11-06-2006, 20:23

Hey guys. . . .

This may be the last post I write on this site for a while – cos it isn't really so relevant to me anymore.

You see. . . I did it!

I finally got clean. I've been off for about 6 months now, and am totally determined to stay that way. If anyone's interested, I'll tell you how it happened.

I reached a point around december where I knew things had to change – or I was going to die. I was living in a truck, in the winter, grim. . . I'd OD'd pretty badly, things were going downhill. . .and, as you see from this thread, my attempts to get clean had been working, then relapsing. . . around and round.

I'd been trying to quit my addiction and keep my life – but I couldn't seperate my addiction from my life. My addiction was my life. So I had to let go of my life.

I quit my job, gave my truck away to my ex-g/f, got rid of my mobile phone. I was lucky, in that I had my mum's place to go to. It wasn't easy. Who wants to have that conversation with their mother?
“Yes, I've been injecting up to £50 of heroin a day, and I've lied to you for years.”

I thought she might tell me to fuck off, but I'd underestimated her. She let me live in her house for 4 months – just getting clean. I treated her with the respect this deserves, and did no drugs in her house.

I did it the hard way – no meth, no subutex, nothing. I relapsed several times throughout January, and didn't use since. I started drinking loads. But I was clean. And content. Planning my future – realising I had a future now.

Still, I felt empty. You lose a habit, you feel that there's something missing. So, one day about a month ago, I got my giro. . . walked through town. . . and realised that there'd always been at the back of my mind a little voice saying - “Not right now matey. But I will be back again”. Heroin's always there when you look for it. I scored, and took my 1st hit in 4 months behind a dirty squat where dogs wouldn't piss. And I died there.

I'd thought 'I'm only going to do this once. . . so it might as well be a good one. I'm clean, so not too much.. . But enough that I can feel it. . . '

When the paramedics arrived, I'd been dead for 3 minutes.

Since then, I've moved away to a new city. It's pretty druggy – but so is every city. Actually, I'm quite into ketamine at the moment. But that's okay. It's not heroin.

And I know now – I really know – that I'm never going to use heroin again.

I came back here to post this to thank all the people who supported me, and to say to all the people who still need support that IT CAN BE DONE!

I don't really have any particular advice to give. Everyone's life is different, and every problem requires a special solution. If there were one thing I could say that I thought would really benefit people it would be : “Don't be afraid to ask for help.”

Thank you, everyone.

Keep it fluffy