View Full Version : how long before nuerotransmitters...
Patrick131
16-02-2005, 01:46
I am in my mid twenties and have used drugs pretty regularly since i was in high school. for most of those years i smoked a lot of pot and drank occasionally. i also did X for about a year but that was a while ago.when i entered college, i stopped smoking pot and began experimenting with cocaine. i think what got me interested in cocaine was during college i had an Rx for adderall and i could take as many as i wanted.i haven't done a lot of coke though... probably six grams total in my entire life. i've also done crystal maybe three times but i didn't like it that much so i stopped.
i haven'tdone cocaine in almost a year and i haven't done meth in almost six months. i haven't done adderall in over a year and i don't care to do any of it ever again. in fact, i have went back to the gym and i exercise almost six days a week. i am also alcohol free except for maybe every two weeks or so..
my question is: will my brain and body, if ever, go back to its original balance of nuerotransmitters? i know that all the drugs i've done have messed up serotonin and dopamine and all the others. is it possible through abstinence to return to your "normal" state? how long does it take? can dopamine be re-started? how bad have i messed myself up?
i am an average joe... you would probably never know i've ever touched drugs just by looking at me on the street. however, even though it seems that i have accomplished a lot for myself it is still hard for me to be happy most of the time. i've had a problem with depression in the past, butnow i don't know what came first... the depression or the drugs.. maybe i was trying to self-medicate??
I think a lot of that stuff is psyco-babble. Studies of our brain and chemistry of is by far not an exact science and you may not have even done drugs long enough or heavily enough to really do any damage. Different propaganda for different generations that talk about all that is just ours. I can imagine what our parents and grandparents heard about govt studies of how drugs turns you into a lifeless zombie or a maniac. lol. My grandfather still tells me stories about how he knew someone a long time ago and they was a good person then they started smoking pot and now they are walking around the streets talking to themselves and bumming change from people. I've been through about 3 drug rehabs and everyone I have went to has always wrote me those SSRI drugs like prozac or paxil and shit like that because I had supposedly destryed my serutonim and all that other shit in my brain and I need a drug to fix things right. Just like all them speeches they give you about how drugs prevebts this brain signal from doing this and thi and that, etc; Sure recovering addicts are depressed at first because they just lost their best friend and way of life. I have been told "You are depressed, You are sad, You need prozac," All the while me saying that I am not. If you knew me you would know I am one of the most optimistic person they are. Anyway, I dont think there is no need to worry unless you really do have some sort of clinical depression or imbalance. But I dont like thosedrugs like that because they mess with your mood and cause sexual disfunction and a bunch of other crap.
Keep in mind everybody, I was just stating my opinion, I m not trying to say my theory is a fact or even answer his question and say thats what it is. Just saying what I think. New here, dont wanna piss nobody off..lolhttp://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif
paulywould
17-02-2005, 15:05
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<TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNABLE="off">Unless you have a mental illness, which 25% of people do, your neurotransmitters will go back to normal. With the amount of drugs you mentioned and the exercise you do they should be near there already if you're eating normal. The problem would most likely be the X that you took. EVERYTHING causes brain damage, so if you see a doctor don't be surprised if he says you may have some. If their is mental illness in your family, like depression, you probably got it-or you did too much X. What it comes down to is-did you start smoking pot because you felt depressed/different/alone/inadequete/etc. or did you start just because you wanted to see what it felt like. If it's the first one, you might have depression, if it's the 2nd, you might have done too much X or are very sensitive to it.</TD></TR>
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The year of X- that's the worse pattern of use you mentioned of a hard drug.
The brain cells you burn don't regenerate, or repair themselves.
MDMA increases the levels of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine in the brain, practically “dumping” the neurotransmitters onto the synapses.
·It is especially good at releasing serotonin, and causes long-term damage to serotonin neurons in the brain.
ØThe amount of damage caused is dose and time related…but studies have shown that use of MDMA causes permanent destruction or long-term damage of dopamine and serotonin neurons in the brain.
·The danger of permanently lowering the levels of serotonin in the brain is especially prevalent for women, who generally experience higher levels of the drug in their bloodstreams.
·This serotonin damage causes depression in the days immediately following taking the drug, because of the serotonin depletion.
MDMA alters neuronal function in the hippocampus, which helps create short-term memory.
·In recent studies, ecstasy users fared worse on tests on measures of memory, learning, and general intelligence. The more frequently they used X, the worse they did on the test of mental abilities.
Dangers
MDMA is illegal, therefore not a controlled substance when made and produced, so there is a large variability in chemical composition.
Ecstasy (MDMA) has serious short-term and long-term effects, including disrupting the brain's serotonin system and, as a result, interfering with a person's mood, emotions, learning, memory, sleep and perception of pain.
Physical effects:
·MDMA drug dramatically raises body temperature, heart rate and blood pressure -with dire consequences for some people that can include heart and kidney failure.
·Impaired coordination, muscle tension, nausea, faintness, blurred vision, and dehydration are also potential side effects of MDMA
Mental effects:
·MDMA can increase depression, anxiety, sleep problems, and paranoia – and these changes may last weeks after using the drug.
·Residual anxiety and mood disorders have been reported in heavy Ecstasy users because of the serotonin loss.
Parkinsonism:
Recent studies have pointed out the potential of developing a form of Parkinson’s, years after using ecstasy. X has been found to damage dopamine neurons in monkeys; if it does the same amount of damage in humans, combined with the natural deterioration of brain dopamine that occurs with age, then Parkinson=like symptoms will occur
* “The message seems clear, the neurotoxic potential of MDMA is high, and use of several sequential recreational doses could have serious, long-term consequences.”
- George A. Ricaurte, Johns Hopkins University MDMA study team
That's nothing you didn't know, right? Just keep exercising, bud, you're doing the exact right thing to combat fatigue and low-serotonin or whatever...
Patrick131
18-02-2005, 20:15
thanks a lot everybody.. it seems that you all think it is the X that is/was the most harmful. i guess it is good becuase i haven't done it in almost four years. but i do understand what you're saying about it causing ireversible damage. oh well. i am feeling better every day and will continue to push along.
that is an interesting theory john and no i don't think it is crazy. what you're talking about is what many believe to be a way to make money for the medical community. in undergrad i was written a Rx for paxil after my roommate had some success with it. i failed out of school on it. the following semester i obviously stopped it and began returning to myself again. paxil took ALL of my anxiety away.. even my good anxiety- the anxiety that makes you get up off the couch and handle your responsibilities. from what i've learned (common knowledge to some i suppose), when you go trying to manipulate your own specific nuerotransmitter balance you (your Doc) are using trial and error. EVERYBODY'S balance is different. my roommate took 10mg a day and he said it changed his life. it ruined mine for a while. i hate SSRI's.
thanks pauly and manda http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif
coke and speed destroy dopamine neuron receptors,and all drugs cause severe oxidative stress,but on the other hand breathing poluted air also causes brain damage,or not breathing for one minute..
During your abuse your brain cells have either been destroyed or damaged,dead brain cells cant be helped but you can regenarate your damaged neurons using certain nootropics(it seems i cant stop talking bout piracetam..http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif)
Working out helps greatly because you increase the blood flow in your brain,thus helping the neuron regeneration process.
Eat fruit,use vitamins but dont use antidepressives for recovery.This may sound funny but whenever you are depressed eat a lot of bannanas(they contain L-tryptophane) or use 5-htp,Zn and Mg supplements or try nootropics,but dont do antidepressives.You shouldnt pop a prozac pill every time you fell bad,nor do drugs for that matter.
antidepressives are for people with real problems and chemical imbalances,they are prescribed too easily
PS i dont think that X was the most harmfull,have you abused a lot of adderal?
Patrick131
18-02-2005, 23:00
yes. i abused a lot of adderall but in a very short period of time. i had the Rx for about a year during college and i used it heavily.
I disagree with MDMA being the worst thing. Meth has been called the worse drug ever by many ex-addicts. Their lifestyle on meth has caused them to get AIDS and other illnesses, done stupid stuff while tweaking like hurting themselves or other people, etc. I've done a lot of researching on Ecstasy, and the consensus is it does cause damage to the axons, but they regenerate in about 3 weeks. thedea.org has a lot of up to date information, uncluding a recent study in which monkeys were allowed to self administer MDMA as much as they wanted for a year. The results? Their brains were the same as none drug doing monkeys.
adderal as any other kind of speed can greatly damage your dopamine receptors and dopamine producing nerve cells..which causes a tough depression state(i had i "speedy" kind of problem a while back,so its very familiar)..but it passes
if youre worried maybe you should ask around for nootropics
and yes meth is by far the worst thing there is,apart from H which i hate even mentioning
Patrick131
19-02-2005, 08:00
what are nootropics and where can i get info about them? i would love to read up on them but i guess that is what google is for, right? and yes, i agree that meth is by far the worst of any drug besides H but i don't know anything about that. meth sucks.
and daeron, sorry to hear about your friend. hang in there
thank you patrick,
yesterday a few of his friends and I got together,did some mdma and remembered him...it was truly touching
still im afraid we were just trying to numb out the pain
...sorry im way off topic..
here is a text about some nootropics,its about piracetam amost fascinating supstance.Mostly they are usedintreatment of memory loss problems(one of most common drug induced problems),but they are also used for "general brain recovery"
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Excerpts from "Smart Drugs & Nutrients" by Ward Dean MD & John Morgenthaler
Piracetam (Nootropyl)
Piracetam is reported to be an intelligence booster and CNS (central nervous system) stimulant with no known toxicity or addictive properties. Piracetam is inexpensive (under $0.85 per day) and available by mail (see appendix A.) The subjective effect described by some people is that piracetam, "wakes up your brain." You'll find more personal accounts of the effects of this remarkable drug in the case histories and testimonials appendix. It's effects and safety are so impressive that piracetam prompted the creation of a new pharmaceutical category called nootropics.
The term nootropic comes from a Greek word meaning "acting on the mind". Since the invention of piracetam by UCB Laboratories in Belgium, other pharmaceutical companies have been scrambling to develop their own nootropics. Some of them being researched now include; vinpocetine, aniracetam, pramiracetam, and oxiracetam. As yet, there is no nootropic compound that id FDA approved for sale in the US, but there is plenty of motivation on the part of pharmaceutical companies to get that approval. Financial analysts expect that the US market for these cognitive enhancers will soon be in excess of $1-billion per year (Pelton, 1989).
Piracetam is very similar in molecular structure to the amino acid pyroglutamate (see Pyroglutamate). Piracetam and pyroglutamate have the same "base" chemical structure, the 2-oxo-pyrrolidine, but they differ by the side chain. Pyroglutamate is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine carboxylic acid, and piracetam is 2-oxo-pyrrolidine acetamide.
Piracetam enhances cognition under conditions of hypoxia (too little oxygen), and also enhances memory and some kinds of learning in normal humans. Outside of the US, piracetam is used to treat alcoholism, stroke, vertigo, senile dementia, sickle cell anemia, dyslexia, and numerous other health problems (Pelton, 1989).
The effect of piracetam can be increased if taken with DMAE, centrophenoxine, choline, or Hydergine. When choline and piracetam are taken together there is a synergistic effect that causes a greater improvement in memory than the sum of each when taken alone (Bartus, 1981).
We know of one person who claims she feels slightly agitated and depressed if she takes piracetam for more than a week without a choline supplement. This feeling is alleviated for her with a single dose of choline. It may be that the piracetam causes acetylcholine to be used up more quickly and that the choline helps to replace this important neurotransmitter.
Once fascinating study suggests that piracetam might increase the number of cholinergic receptors in the brain. Older mice were given piracetam for two weeks and then the density of muscarinic cholinergic receptors in their frontal cortexes was measured. The researchers found that these older mice had 30-40% higher density of these receptors than before. (Pilch, 1988). Piracetam, unlike many other drugs, appears to have a regenerative effect on the nervous system.
One theory of Alzheimer's disease is that the decline of intellectual functions is partly caused by a decreased activity of the cholinergic system in the brain caused by cell death and cell degeneration. The researchers in the above study speculated that their findings could explain how piracetam works and could also explain the finding of Bartus, et. al. regarding a profound effect of combining choline with piracetam on memory enhancement of old rats.
As mentioned previously the late drug researcher Arthur Cherkin related to us that he believed the combination of Hydergine and Piracetam potentiate each other by 5 times. This highlights the importance of adjusting the dosage when multiple substances are taken because, some of these substances will cause paradoxical effects when excessive amounts are taken.
Although piracetam is a derivative of GABA (gamma amino butyric acid, a neurotransmitter), there is no evidence that piracetam works through the GABAergic system. Some research even suggests GABA may even inhibit memory and learning (Zhang, 1989).
Precautions: Piracetam may increase the effects of certain drugs, such as amphetamines, psychotropics, and Hydergine, as stated. Adverse effects are rare but include insomnia, psychomotor agitation, nausea, gastrointestinal distress, and headaches. Piracetam has virtually no known toxicity or contraindications.
Dosage: Piracetam is supplied in 400mg or 800mg capsules or tablets. The usual dose is 2400 to 4800 mg per day in three divided doses. Some literature recommends that the first two days a high "attack" dose should be taken. We have noticed that often when people first take piracetam they do not notice any effect at all until they take a high dose (approximately 4000 to 8000mg). Thereafter, they may notice that a lower dosage is sufficient. Piracetam takes effect within 30 to 60 minutes.
Sources: Piracetam is not sold in the US. It can be purchased over the counter in Mexico or by mail form the sources listed in appendix A. Other names include: Avigilen, Cerebroforte, Cerebrospan, Cetam, Dinagen, Encefalux, Encetrop, Euvifor, gabacet, Genogris, Memo-Puren, Nootron, Nootrop, Nootropil, Nootropyl, Normabrain, Norzetam, Pirroxil, Psycotron, Stimucortex, and UCB-6215.
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APPENDIX D: Testimonials & Case Histories
Testimonials and case histories are always suspect in scientific circles. This is because the human mind is so powerful at producing the placebo effect. Humans repeatedly experience powerful drug effects from taking inactive substances when they believe that the substances are drugs. That is why we rely on references to scientific research for the information we present.
We include this appendix of testimonials and case histories so that you may orient yourself as to which substances you would like to try. If you would like to share your experiences with us, whether they are similar or different than the ones described here, please feel free to write to the authors c/o B&J Publications, PO Box 483, Santa Cruz, CA 95061-0483.
Piracetam:
"My secretary responded so well to piracetam (at doses of only 800mg) that I decided to give her a small raise so she could afford it. She takes piracetam instead of heading for the coffee machine. Every day she takes it she is decidedly more alert, and intelligent acting and she smiles more. She is overall a much better employee. She says it wakes up her brain." -JM
"Piracetam keeps me alert when I am driving. It also helps me to formulate new and different ideas when I am taking essay tests in school." - DB
"I liked piracetam so much that I decided to try it with vincamine and xanthinol nicotinate. I took standard doses of all three - 2400mg of piracetam, 20mg of vincamine, and 300mg of xanthinol nicotinate. I actually felt stupid! I had the "right on the tip of my tongue" response for hours.
Recently a friend suggested that I combine Hydergine with piracetam, explaining that the two synergize each other, and that I should try a small dose of each. I had tried Hydergine years ago and liked it a lot, but found it prohibitively expensive. I decided to experiment with these two in combination with ginkgo biloba. I started with what I thought were very small quantities, 1/4mg of Hydergine, 200mg of piracetam, and 50mg of ginkgo, but found the combination to be extraordinary. I've tried many different cognitive enhancers, but this low-cost, low-dose combination is my favorite." -BP
"I started taking piracetam with choline about a year ago and have found this combination to be one of the best things that ever happened to me. I no longer get extreme mood swings, I am much happier in general, and my concentration and speaking ability is better. I also found that my relationships with family and friends have improved, probably due to my increased self confidence." - HH
"I took two grams of piracetam and, after 30 minutes, I began to find my boyfriend much more sexually attractive. I assumed this was as fluke since I had never heard of this effect from piracetam. Since this experience I have taken piracetam every day for two months and every time, without fail, it has the same effect. Piracetam has vastly improved my sex life." -DB
Definitely use Piracetam and it's more powerful cousin, Anircetam. Also a new drug called Dostinex will help swiy's dopamine levels and sex life. It can be gotten without a prescription on the net.Exercise raises serotonin levels so that is a good thing already. Read up on vitamins and supplements that act as precursors of the neurotransmitters and be especially sure to eat a healthy diet rich in these as well. Read the book "Natural Highs" by Hyla Cass, M.D. It explains why drugs work on our brains the way they do and what to do about the damage. It has definitely worked for swim. There is also another book called "Natural Ecstacy" by Justin Cohen. Just Google it and it will come up. I'm just trying to tell what worked for swim because she has been where other swimmers have been and sometimes it seems like it takes forever to feel better but sometimes it really is mind over matter and takes some work to pull swiy back up to normal again. Good luck.