God?

[Hayden]

If any of you have ever read the Electric Kool-Aid acid test you know what I'm talking about when I say the All-One. I think there is something mystical and possibly truthful about this belief. During my first experience with mushrooms I felt as if I had extreme, or atleast much greater, telepathic abilities. I could sense different people's energy, the magnitude and nature of it. Also, A friend and I held a long conversation about life and philosophy in which we would often times finish each others sentences or not even have to say anything because we both knew exactly what we were thinking about, we were synched up. It is strange to think of our own existence without thinking of our physical appearance and physical existence, yet the physical aspects of ourselves are not very important. Our bodies can travel places without much affect on the All-One, yet our thoughts and state of mind is what really contributes to the state of the All-One. I think that the All-One is almost like the sum of everybody in the worlds state of thinking. Everyone's thoughts add up to a force, acertain feeling, anidea that moves in a certain direction. This is what I consider God, although I don't like using that term because of all the stupid shit it's affiliated with. Anyway, these are just my thought's, Everyone should read the Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test along with Stranger in a Strange Land. Great books.-Hayden

[Guest]

What most people don't know is that this is not just somebodies view on things, but these are experiences masses of users of psychedelic substances( tools) have experienced. Even people that avoid or are totally astranged by these things are bound to stumble on them once and a while during psychedelic experiences.

[Sick Jack]

I will advice to read The Cosmic Revolution by Timothy Leary.


This book will give you the better "theoretical" and easy to understand(particularly for someone who had your experience) about the interaction between drugs, your neurologic system and the cosmos.


I hate call this find "god" for the same reason as you... So I call this "entity", The Great Magnet (see Fear&Loathing in Las Vegas).


Have fun with Timothy's books... His work is really interesting.

[Embalming]

Think mushrooms did huh..?

Salvia will do double..

I should know

[imdrax]

i think about that same sh!t everyday

[teterev]

IMHO acid does graduallyincrease parapsychological abilities.But in ordinary day-by-day life you still have to keep your attitude under control,otherways "normal" people consider u freakish,etc. thou u completely understand their reaction!And there is always that risk-to find yourself one day in classical paranoid state(or shizo,or megalomaniacal etc.) So it all leads sometime to painful question-am I cursed or blessed ? ;0}}

[P!MPJU!C3]

It a agree that in a cloudy state of mind you can communicate better with other people. Also I think that being high gives you the oppurtunity to think deeper about things.

What most of you dont know is that you can reach these hightes also when you are quit sober. I have great confersations while being high and in a company of intelligent people. But I also had a confersation while not high in which I found out that god excisted according

2 me.

I think that the reason that you dont have deep confersation when you are not high is because it is either "not cool 2 seem smart", no time to philosophise, to difficult 2 formulate.

The thing that many drugs do is make you just not give a fuck. Talking and discussing is a lot easier because you are taking your time, dont care bout formulating and if you are stupid enough in the 1ste palce 2 think that being dumb is cool, than you will be released of that 2.

Drugs dont give us an oppurtunity 2 think better & deeper, but they do take away all the things that hold us back from a good conforsation.

[wizard warior]

well i think a mental iilness is a curse cause itmesses u up big time and makes you think everyone hates/ is paranoid about you,you and well i am sure thats not really the case but it seem that way.maybe peolpe who are not mental disturbed are deep down really longing to experince it but would never say that for fear of jugement or being locked up,and ridiculied because of their desiease.

[P!MPJU!C3]

www.geocities.com/askelsie/



This site shows us god. Atleast if ur a fuckin fundamenthalist. Geez, people like this should be takin out of their homes and shot in the neck execution style 2 show the world what happens 2 people that claim 2 know the world of god and therefor preach hate. God is all about love. These people are therefor sinning, I pray(Im a human loving christian) not beyond repair.

[wizard warior]

i as talking nonsense in my last post there about mental health i know its a touchy subject and i did not mean any offense by it.pz and love to all good people

[Guest]

It a agree that in a cloudy state of mind you can communicate better with other people. Also I think that being high gives you the oppurtunity to think deeper about things.

What most of you dont know is that you can reach these hightes also when you are quit sober. I have great confersations while being high and in a company of intelligent people. But I also had a confersation while not high in which I found out that god excisted according

2 me.

I think that the reason that you dont have deep confersation when you are not high is because it is either "not cool 2 seem smart", no time to philosophise, to difficult 2 formulate.

The thing that many drugs do is make you just not give a fuck. Talking and discussing is a lot easier because you are taking your time, dont care bout formulating and if you are stupid enough in the 1ste palce 2 think that being dumb is cool, than you will be released of that 2.

Drugs dont give us an oppurtunity 2 think better & deeper, but they do take away all the things that hold us back from a good conforsation.

I totally agree. In fact, I couldn't agree more!

[sunra]

I think the main problem people have contemplating and philosiphising is the acceptance that you may be wrong . When caught up in a high it is easy to forget and so easier to assert ideas without fear.


As to whether people are jealous of mental illness , I do not belive that there has ever been anyone or will ever be anyone who does not experience mental illness.

[desolated000]

God... one of the most interesting words in the english lanuage. Also the most confusing.

I did some meditating and came up with my idea of God, yet it is no where near final. All I have right now are ideas, and I cant seem to form them into a beleif.

God created us to create him. God is only as powerful as we beleive he is. If everyone were to loose faith he would surely die. We all have our own idea of God in our head, and theese combined ideas make up THE God we see in the sky. Everything he does is right, but certianly not good. Death disease, murder, all are bad, but all are right. He controls karma and makes sure everything is fair, even if it doesnt seem it. I dont beleive there is a physical god in heaven, he is just a state of mind. And heaven is a state of mind that lives past our own bodily death.

Of course this isn't coming from Christianity. I don't think I can trust my own native religion any more. The church is corrupt, it's role in history is less than innocent, and the Bible is not much more than propaganda formed by money hungry opportunists. Lots of the stories in the Bible are adapted from other religions, and there are books that werent added to the bible in the vadacin's vaults. Right now Im not sure I can have faith in Jesus..

Please share your own thoughts and help me and whoever reads this from their beleif of God.

[tre2005be]

i do beleive in god, i do believe in right and wrong, and i do believe that a balance has to be kept. however i do not beleive in religion, religion is a way, created by man, to control the masses, and yes it can do great good, but it can also do great harm. religion was created by man to help us comprehend that which we could not understand.

the price of free will is the silence of god.

[desolated000]

Idk, I think christianity may have started out with good intention but it seems like even "God" is seeling himself out.

MY idea on evolution:
Our bodies did indeed evolve from lower life, but i beleive there is no way in hell our minds came to be by chance. There is a HUGGE gap inbetween free-will and instinct. I beleive our bodies evolved and this God gave us the freedom of thought.

[Bajeda]

I don't see god as described by any religion, though I do believe in some concept of him.

My understanding of god is closer to the Hindu way of thinking about the universe. They have a huge and complex system of gods that are infinite in number but at the center of this they have a smaller number of gods that are more central. But ignoring these even you get to one of the core beliefs of the religion - Brahman.

Brahman is everything. Literally. It is the ultimate principle who is without a beginning, without an end, who is hidden in all and who is the cause, source, material and effect of all creation known, unknown and yet to happen in the entire universe. A bit complicated eh?

So Brahman is basically pure energy and the whole system of karma and reaching moksha (liberation of your spirit from life) begins and ends with it. So basically your spirit comes out of the Brahman and you live life after life until you achieve self-realization and your spirit can rejoin the cosmic energy known as Brahman and you will exist no more.


Ok, now that I may have confused you a bit with my bad explanation of these concepts, Ill confuse you even more with my explanation of how they relate to my beliefs.

I believe in Brahman as a cosmic force except not as the orignator of the universe. I believe Brahman is the universe. It sort of like the idea of Gaia, that the Earth is a living being. God is everywhere around us, in every animate and inanimate object and being on the planet including the planet itself. That extended to the entire universe as god being the sum of all the parts pretty much explains my belief.

Its funny, as if I explain this to any monotheistic believers they say that I might as well call myself an atheist. I disagree. Just because I don't believe in their idea of god doesn't mean I believe in god. My definition of god is that of the being (or entity since you can't really describe such an abstract idea) that rules the universe. In my case its more nature than some mythological being that will answer and receive your prayers.


And just to clarify my viewpoint a little. I was originally Roman Catholic. Was confirmed and all that though I never really believed. I started getting this view of god around middle school and started thinking about it more through high school. I don't doubt that use of certain substances aided in the progression of this idea in my mind.

[~lostgurl~]

What's easier to believe?

Something made Something out of Nothing
or
Nothing made Something out of Nothing

[Bajeda]

Whats easier to believe?

Something made Something out of Nothing
or
Nothing made Something out of Nothing

Hence Voltaire - "If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him."



Or you could have something more like my theory (though I don't have a creation myth) -----> Nothing made Something out of itself.

[Trebor]

I beleive our bodies evolved and this God gave us the freedom of thought.


I believe it was mushrooms.

[Nagognog2]

"God is all powerful and can do all things. God made a weight so heavy that he could not lift it."

Sorry for a sexist outlook, I didn't invent this. However the question is this: Is God truly all powerful? If so - God is a paradox.

[Nature Boy]

Ego creates "God" IMO. Why as humans should we believe that there's a heavenly being who looks after us, saves us from our sins and grants us eternal life in paradise? There's no sound logic behind it. It's one thing to believe that some supreme force created the universe, it's an entirely different thing to believe that some supreme force created the universe for us, and only for us, and grants only us all of these great promises. What about all the other creatures of the universe? Are we that egotistical to believe we're above them all? We're all a bunch of cells at the end of the day.

Just my opinion, no need to sharpen knives.

[Choctaw]

being a native american, I do believe in a higher spirit...not necessarily a God, but some sort of higher being..but when we begin to consider our own stories, customs, and spiritual beliefs to be second rate or we discard them altogether in favor another system then we have problems with our own self image (by we I mean Indians.. and not the ones from india but the ones that were here before Columbus, thats right Native)...As Columbus arrived so did the stories of Jesus and these teachings were preached to our people.. so i can not believe in Jesus.. but the holy spirit is cool with me.. :D

[Psych0naut]

Columbus arrived so did the stories of Jesus and these teachings were preached to our people.. so i can not believe in Jesus.. but the holy spirit is cool with me.. :DThat 's the big question, one which starts and fuels many wars.
Which god is THE god, is it Jesus, Mohammed, Brahman ..?
SWIM doesn't want to sharp knives either, but this is a good thing to philosophate about.

[Phungushead]

Think about this: What would happen if we, as humans, did somehow
manage to discover the true essence of god?

Anyway, as to the existance of god, my dog thinks I'm god when I turn on
the lights...

I like the ending of Men in Black, where not just the Earth, but the whole
entire universe, which we believe to be infinite, is enclosed inside a marble
on some alien's desk. I have friends who believe that we were created
by aliens, we are the result of some kind of experiment by some civilization
so advanced we cannot even comprehend. Like those little glass spheres
that you can buy, with water inside, that can support an entire ecosystem
of microscopic life. If so, like human to an animal, wouldn't we consider
these creator(s) god? Maybe to the creator, we are just as insignificant
as a bacteria...

[The Doors]

God is whatever we make it to be. Everyone sees god or thinks of god in a different way.

Personally, I think god makes sure that certain events in our lives occur to shape us into who we are. It can be dramatic, but it could also be as simple as meeting a new person.

I believe in god in my own way, but I certainly don't believe in religion.

[bewilderment]

I believe the entire universe is a projection of "God's" consciousness and thus we are all part of this energy which is "god". Hence, we are all god, the universe in a grain of sand. And many current theories of physics point somewhat to this conclusion. Everything is an extension of yourself, the trees, your dog, your mother, plants, books, and every other thing in existance. Although, I remain a skeptic and am not entirely set on this belief, it is the one that makes the most sense to me. I'm really an agnostic with pantheistic leanings. My favorite poem is "Song of Myself" by Walt Whitman who seems to have had similar beliefs which are described in this poem...here are some of the key parts I wish to share:

"I have heard what the talkers were talking, the talk of the/beginning and the end,/But I do not talk of the beginning or the end.

There was never any more inception than there is now,/Nor any more youth or age than there is now,/And will never be any more perfection than there is now,/Nor any more heaven or hell than there is now.
-----
Swiftly arose and spread around me the peace and knowledge that pass all the argument of the earth,/And I know that the hand of God is the promise of my own,/And I know that the spirit of God is the brother of my own,/And that all the men ever born are also my brothers,/ and the women my sisters and lovers,/And that a kelson of the creation is love.
----
A child said What is the grass? fetching it to me with full hands;/How could I answer the child?/ I do not know what it is any more than he.

I guess it must be the flag of my disposition, out of hopeful green/stuff woven.

Or I guess it is the handkerchief of the Lord,/A scented gift remembrancer designedly dropt,/Bearing the owner's name someway in the corners,/ that we may see and remark, and say Whose?
----
What do you think has become of the young and old men?/And what do you think has become of the women and children?

They are alive and well somewhere,/The smallest sprout shows there is really no death,/And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait at the
end to arrest it,/And ceas'd the moment life appear'd.

All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,/And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier.

Has any one supposed it lucky to be born?/I hasten to inform him or her it is just as lucky to die, and I know it.

I pass death with the dying and birth with the new-wash'd babe/and am not contain'd between my hat and boots,/And peruse manifold objects, no two like and every one good,/The earth good and the stars good, and their adjuncts all good.

I am not an earth nor an adjunct of an earth,/I am the mate and companion of people, all just as immortal and/fathomless as myself,/(They do not know how immortal, but I know.)
--------
Why should I pray? why should I venerate and be ceremonious?

Having pried through the strata, analyzed to a hair, counsel'd with/doctors and calculated close,/I find no sweeter fat than sticks to my own bones.

In all people I see myself, none more and not one a barley-corn
less,/And the good or bad I say of myself I say of them.

I know I am solid and sound,/To me the converging objects of the universe perpetually flow,/All are written to me, and I must get what the writing means.

I know I am deathless,/I know this orbit of mine cannot be swept by a carpenter's compass,/I know I shall not pass like a child's carlacue cut with a burnt stick at night.

I know I am august,/I do not trouble my spirit to vindicate itself or be understood,/I see that the elementary laws never apologize,/(I reckon I behave no prouder than the level I plant my house by,/after all.)

I exist as I am, that is enough,/If no other in the world be aware I sit content,/And if each and all be aware I sit content.

One world is aware and by far the largest to me, and that is myself,/And whether I come to my own to-day or in ten thousand or ten/
million years,/I can cheerfully take it now,/ or with equal cheerfulness I can wait.

My foothold is tenon'd and mortis'd in granite,/I laugh at what you call dissolution,/And I know the amplitude of time.
----
Whoever degrades another degrades me,/And whatever is done or said returns at last to me.

Through me the afflatus surging and surging, through me the current
and index.

I speak the pass-word primeval, I give the sign of democracy,/By God! I will accept nothing which all cannot have their/counterpart of on the same terms.
----
I have said that the soul is not more than the body,/And I have said that the body is not more than the soul,/And nothing, not God, is greater to one than one's self is,/And whoever walks a furlong without sympathy walks to his own/funeral drest in his shroud,/And I or you pocketless of a dime may purchase the pick of the/earth,/And to glance with an eye or show a bean in its pod confounds the/learning of all times,/And there is no trade or employment but the young man following it/may become a hero,/And there is no object so soft but it makes a hub for the wheel'd/universe,/ And I say to any man or woman, Let your soul stand cool and composed/ before a million universes.

And I say to mankind, Be not curious about God,/For I who am curious about each am not curious about God,/(No array of terms can say how much I am at peace about God and/about death.)

I hear and behold God in every object, yet understand God not in the/least,/
Nor do I understand who there can be more wonderful than myself.

Why should I wish to see God better than this day?/I see something of God each hour of the twenty-four, and each moment/then,/In the faces of men and women I see God, and in my own face in the/glass,/I find letters from God dropt in the street, and every one is sign'd by God's name,/And I leave them where they are, for I know that wheresoe'er I go,/Others will punctually come for ever and ever.
-----
I depart as air, I shake my white locks at the runaway sun,/I effuse my flesh in eddies, and drift it in lacy jags.

I bequeath myself to the dirt to grow from the grass I love,/If you want me again look for me under your boot-soles.

You will hardly know who I am or what I mean,/But I shall be good health to you nevertheless,/And filter and fibre your blood.

Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged,/Missing me one place search another,/I stop somewhere waiting for you."

I apologize for the length, I did what I could to cut down the size and cut out a bunch of parts I liked. Then entire poem is found here: http://www.princeton.edu/~batke/logr/log_026.html

Just thought I'd share because it more eloquently puts how I generally feel about existance in general and I think it's a good read as well.

[VincentVan]

I´ve never belived in any God, but until a short time ago I really did´nt mind that other people did; I saw religion as a meme that like all other memes will evolve , mutate and finally go extinct.
Now I fear that I´m becoming intollerant.
I can´t stand religions of any kind anymore, and any manifestation of this nefarious meme make me feel angry, sad, and impotent, (exactly in this order).
I can´t avoid to think that without religion the twin towers will still be on their place, a jewish state or a jewish olocaust would be inconceivable, Ulster would be a quiet province of Irland, India and Pakistan a single country that would´ nt have any use for atomic weapons, entire populations, like the armenians in Turkey, or the Albanians in the ex Yugoslavia, would have escaped being massacred.
Going back in time a little, religions have been always either the main cause or the main excuse for every war , conquest, genocide and historical crime.
Always an instrument of obscurantism, conservatism, oppression, and tool for justifing illegitimate and absolute power.
When I hear Bin Laden or George Bush talking about their God , I feel that I don´t hate just them but specially their God; cruel and vindicative like every God.
There is a beautiful book, a collection of essays really, by one of my heroes, one of the most intelligent persons in the world at the moment, that explains why god and religion should be eliminated and why serious scientists have to stand up against religion for the good of all the peoples of the world and the progress of humanity.
It´s called " A devil´s chaplain" by that genius of Richard Dawkins.
Of particular interest are the essays "Time to stand up" , and the poignant letter to his daughter titled " Good and bad reasons for beliving".
If you get half a chance try to read it so that you too may become convinced of why if to hate anything is a bad thing, to hate religion means to hate hate itself.

VV.

" If God would really exist then men should find a way to kill him"
( F. Nietzche )

[bewilderment]

I´ve never belived in any God, but until a short time ago I really did´nt mind that other people did; I saw religion as a meme that like all other memes will evolve , mutate and finally go extinct.
Now I fear that I´m becoming intollerant.
I can´t stand religions of any kind anymore, and any manifestation of this nefarious meme make me feel angry, sad, and impotent, (exactly in this order).
I can´t avoid to think that without religion the twin towers will still be on their place, a jewish state or a jewish olocaust would be inconceivable, Ulster would be a quiet province of Irland, India and Pakistan a single country that would´ nt have any use for atomic weapons, entire populations, like the armenians in Turkey, or the Albanians in the ex Yugoslavia, would have escaped being massacred.
Going back in time a little, religions have been always either the main cause or the main excuse for every war , conquest, genocide and historical crime.
Always an instrument of obscurantism, conservatism, oppression, and tool for justifing illegitimate and absolute power.
When I hear Bin Laden or George Bush talking about their God , I feel that I don´t hate just them but specially their God; cruel and vindicative like every God.
There is a beautiful book, a collection of essays really, by one of my heroes, one of the most intelligent persons in the world at the moment, that explains why god and religion should be eliminated and why serious scientists have to stand up against religion for the good of all the peoples of the world and the progress of humanity.
It´s called " A devil´s chaplain" by that genius of Richard Dawkins.
Of particular interest are the essays "Time to stand up" , and the poignant letter to his daughter titled " Good and bad reasons for beliving".
If you get half a chance try to read it so that you too may become convinced of why if to hate anything is a bad thing, to hate religion means to hate hate itself.

VV.

" If God would really exist then men should find a way to kill him"
( F. Nietzche )

I feel much the same most of the time. I've been wanting to get that book, but haven't yet. Did you see the special he did called "the root of all evil" it comes in two parts and is an excellent watch if you can find it and have the connection to download...it's on quite a few torrent sites.

[Bajeda]

There is another thread about this book, but I feel that it has some issues worth discussing here.

DMT: The Spirit Molecule by Dr. Rick Strassman


It has some very interesting ideas concerning the nature of god and the reality in which we exist, as well as DMT's connection to these things.

My friend swim finds it especially interesting as the concept of god as often seen by people under the influence of DMT is very similar to his own ideas.


With this said (much more about Dr. Strassman's hypotheses could be said but its not all pertinent to this discussion), does anyone here know any lab rats or monkeys that have experienced visions of god while under the influence of DMT or other psychedelic substances?

And also, has anyone here had their concept of god directly influenced by psychedelic use?

[VincentVan]

Thanx for the precious info Bewilderment, I´m gonna look for that torrent.
As for Rick Strassman´s theories , while surely intresting and original , I´m not sure if I find them convincing.
Strassman´s point of view , together with a long interview with him, are dicussed at lenght in Graham Hancock last book "Supernatural" ( Century- Random House). Hancock use them as a sort of trampoline for his own theories that, according to my modest opinion, are more science fiction than legitimate science.
Hancock´s book , however makes a very good case for dr. Lewis- Williams´
"Neuropsychological Theory" of rock and cave art, of which he includes also an interesting critic as appendice to the book.
This is undoubtely legitimate science and I find it rather convincing.
BTW Bajeda, where is that other thread about Strassman´s book you write about?

VV.

[Bajeda]

^^^^^^

The thread about Dr. Strassman's DMT book is here ----> http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4546