Gabapentin (Neurontin)

[Nicaine]

Got a bunch of Neurontin (gabapentin) from an older prescription I never used much of. Mostly been using it as an occasional sleep aid, but it's an interesting buzz in itself... mostly drowsiness & cottonmouth, but some alcohol-like impairment as well, along with benzo-like relaxation. A kind of heavy feeling in the head & limbs. Dizziness is apparently a common side effect, but I never get that.

Worth a try if anyone has some around, 600mg to 900mg is a good dosage.

Definitely helps with sleep, if nothing else.Edited by: Nicaine

[thechimpo]

SWIMhas this stuff called neurontin/gabapentin (i think its the same thing)


SWIM is wondering if SWIM takes like a bunch of them while on 1.25mg of Klonopin if it will fuck SWIM up?

[allyourbase]

neurontin causes hepatic cancer http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif

[tinogsx]

I'm pretty sure if you mix those to that they will fuck you up. Be careful when doing this experiment. They both can make you very drowsy.

[Nicaine]

SWIM*has this stuff called neurontin/gabapentin (i think its the same thing)


SWIM is wondering if SWIM takes like a bunch of them while on 1.25mg of Klonopin if it will fuck SWIM up?
Not really. I have a script for Klonopin, and have taken Neurontin with it. The "high" rather sux, makes you drowsy, heavy feeling, etc. with no real pleasure to speak of (YMMV).

BTW it's very difficult to overdose on Neurontin, the toxic dosage is some ridiculously high figure. You'd probably choke to death on the pills first. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif Edited by: Nicaine

[bandito]

neurontin causes hepatic cancer http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley22.gif

Where did you hear/read this? Can you post any links please?

Bandito.

[Fantasian]

SWIF will recently be prescribed Gabapentin for pain, he intends to use it legitimately for this use. He has however come aware that there are apparent recreational uses but isnt sure what they are. Here is something he pulled of WIkipedia could anyone further expand on this.

Abuse Potential
Though Gabapentin is not a controlled substance, it does produce psychoactive effects that could lead to abuse of the drug. However, it is widely regarded as having little or no abuse potential. As to why, it is unknown. Pregabalin, a Gabapentinoid with higher potency marketed for neuropathic pain, is a controlled substance, under the DEA schedule 5; akin to codeine-based cough syrup

[old hippie 56]

Wife takes them for her MS, they are linked to suicide and depression.

[Forthesevenlakes]

swim has found that gabapentin has had some use for dealing with social anxiety. many of the recreational users who report on erowid say that it makes them socially outgoing, act silly, makes movements uncooridinated, etc. to swim these sound like they are due to some action at the gaba receptor; even though its not a benzo, their trip reports remind swim somewhat of a person who has taken a low dose of a benzo or drank a bit. the synergism with alcohol would lend some support to the gaba agonist idea.

interestingly the manufacturer of gabapentin, parke-davis, got into a lot of trouble reccomending that the drug be prescribed for many things that it had not been proven to treat! its a shocking display of callous greed on the part of the pharmaceutical industry, and is worth reading, so here's the link! (http://bipolar.about.com/cs/neurontin/a/neurontin_suit.htm)

[BUZZFACTOR]

Swim's friend was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and he reports that it greatly helps the anxiety and keeps manic episodes to a minimum, along with controlling depression. Swim would like to hear from others who are taking neurontin, their daily dosages and experience with it. Friend's daily dose is 800 mg. three times daily.

[Broshious]

Swim originally ordered Gabapentin online to try for social anxiety. Swim took 600mg didn't feel much. Swim took 1.2g didn't feel much. Swim too 1.8g and Swim felt WONDERFUL. Not only does it make you kinda drunk, but even after it has worn off Swim feels good. Swim then got a prescription for 600mg twice daily. Swim tried just taking 600mg again and Swim noticed that in situations that would normally make him very anxious Swim didn't feel the anxiety. So taking a normal does seems to be a more subtle treatment for social anxiety while taking large doses(Swim is up to using around 3.6g now) have very obvious effects.

[monkeygone2heaven]

it's a anticonvulsant (anti-epileptic, ie, seizure) drug sometimes used also for pain and psychiatric conditions, largely due to aggressive marketing on the pharmacologic company's part no necessarily because it is the best treatment...

do you really want to experiment?? well you can go ahead take a few althoug i don't recomment... it's not fun!! it has serious side effects - kidney, liver issues as well as serious weight gain.. as for its menta; effects... it's trade name is "neurontin" and doctors lovingly call it "morontin"... guess why?

this is one drug which has little recreational enjoyment. i am shocked to hear that young people are talking about taking it recreationally. hey i believe in freedom. go fo it!! if you enjoy not getting high but ruining your interna organs whilst being mentally slow and also want to put on weight...

all this info is freely available online people!! read about what you put into your body!

jeeez

Dr Monkey, PhD.

[BobTheGreat]

Swim was recently prescribed gababpentin for anxiety problems. He has seached the forums and found no real information on gabapentin. There were some mentions of it in the lyrica thread but no real solid information.

Gabapentin is described as 1-(aminomethyl)cyclohexaneacetic acid with a molecular formula of
C9H17NO2 and a molecular weight of 171.24. Gabapentin is a white to off-white crystalline solid with a pKa1 of 3.7 and a pKa2 of 10.7. It is
freely soluble in water and both basic and acidic aqueous solutions. The log of the partition
coefficient (n-octanol/0.05M phosphate buffer) at pH 7.4 is –1.25.

CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY

Mechanism of Action

Gabapentin is structurally related to the neurotransmitter GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) but
it does not modify GABAA or GABAB radioligand binding, it is not converted metabolically into
GABA or a GABA agonist, and it is not an inhibitor of GABA uptake or degradation.
Gabapentin was tested in radioligand binding assays at concentrations up to 100 μM and did not
exhibit affinity for a number of other common receptor sites, including benzodiazepine,
glutamate, N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), quisqualate, kainate, strychnine-insensitive or
strychnine-sensitive glycine, alpha 1, alpha 2, or beta adrenergic, adenosine A1 or A2,
cholinergic muscarinic or nicotinic, dopamine D1 or D2, histamine H1, serotonin S1 or S2,
opiate mu, delta or kappa, cannabinoid 1, voltage-sensitive calcium channel sites labeled with
nitrendipine or diltiazem, or at voltage-sensitive sodium channel sites labeled with
batrachotoxinin A 20-alpha-benzoate. Furthermore, gabapentin did not alter the cellular uptake
of dopamine, noradrenaline, or serotonin.
In vitro studies with radiolabeled gabapentin have revealed a gabapentin binding site in areas of
rat brain including neocortex and hippocampus. A high-affinity binding protein in animal brain
tissue has been identified as an auxiliary subunit of voltage-activated calcium channels.
However, functional correlates of gabapentin binding, if any, remain to be elucidated.

Pharmacokinetics and Drug Metabolism

All pharmacological actions following gabapentin administration are due to the activity of the
parent compound; gabapentin is not appreciably metabolized in humans.

Oral Bioavailability: Gabapentin bioavailability is not dose proportional; i.e., as dose is
increased, bioavailability decreases. Bioavailability of gabapentin is approximately 60%, 47%,
34%, 33%, and 27% following 900, 1200, 2400, 3600, and 4800 mg/day given in 3 divided
doses, respectively. Food has only a slight effect on the rate and extent of absorption of
gabapentin (14% increase in AUC and Cmax).
Distribution: Less than 3% of gabapentin circulates bound to plasma protein. The apparent
volume of distribution of gabapentin after 150 mg intravenous administration is 58±6 L (Mean
±SD). In patients with epilepsy, steady-state predose (Cmin) concentrations of gabapentin in
cerebrospinal fluid were approximately 20% of the corresponding plasma concentrations.

Elimination:
Gabapentin is eliminated from the systemic circulation by renal excretion as
unchanged drug. Gabapentin is not appreciably metabolized in humans.
Gabapentin elimination half-life is 5 to 7 hours and is unaltered by dose or following multiple
dosing. Gabapentin elimination rate constant, plasma clearance, and renal clearance are directly
proportional to creatinine clearance. In elderly patients, and in patients with impaired renal function, gabapentin plasma
clearance is reduced. Gabapentin can be removed from plasma by hemodialysis.
Dosage adjustment in patients with compromised renal function or undergoing hemodialysis is
recommended.
Age: The effect of age was studied in subjects 20-80 years of age. Apparent oral clearance
(CL/F) of gabapentin decreased as age increased, from about 225 mL/min in those under 30
years of age to about 125 mL/min in those over 70 years of age. Renal clearance (CLr) and CLr
adjusted for body surface area also declined with age; however, the decline in the renal clearance
of gabapentin with age can largely be explained by the decline in renal function. Reduction of
gabapentin dose may be required in patients who have age related compromised renal function.


Drug Interactions

In vitro studies were conducted to investigate the potential of gabapentin to inhibit the major
cytochrome P450 enzymes (CYP1A2, CYP2A6, CYP2C9, CYP2C19, CYP2D6, CYP2E1, and
CYP3A4) that mediate drug and xenobiotic metabolism using isoform selective marker
substrates and human liver microsomal preparations. Only at the highest concentration tested
(171 μg/mL; 1 mM) was a slight degree of inhibition (14%-30%) of isoform CYP2A6 observed.
No inhibition of any of the other isoforms tested was observed at gabapentin concentrations up to
171 μg/mL (approximately 15 times the Cmax at 3600 mg/day).
Gabapentin is not appreciably metabolized nor does it interfere with the metabolism of
commonly coadministered antiepileptic drugs.
The drug interaction data described in this section were obtained from studies involving healthy
adults and adult patients with epilepsy.

Phenytoin: In a single (400 mg) and multiple dose (400 mg TID) study of Neurontin in epileptic
patients (N=8) maintained on phenytoin monotherapy for at least 2 months, gabapentin had no
effect on the steady-state trough plasma concentrations of phenytoin and phenytoin had no effect
on gabapentin pharmacokinetics.

Carbamazepine: Steady-state trough plasma carbamazepine and carbamazepine 10, 11 epoxide
concentrations were not affected by concomitant gabapentin (400 mg TID; N=12)
administration. Likewise, gabapentin pharmacokinetics were unaltered by carbamazepine
administration.

Valproic Acid: The mean steady-state trough serum valproic acid concentrations prior to and
during concomitant gabapentin administration (400 mg TID; N=17) were not different and
neither were gabapentin pharmacokinetic parameters affected by valproic acid.

Phenobarbital: Estimates of steady-state pharmacokinetic parameters for phenobarbital or
gabapentin (300 mg TID; N=12) are identical whether the drugs are administered alone or
together.

Naproxen: Coadministration (N=18) of naproxen sodium capsules (250 mg) with Neurontin
(125 mg) appears to increase the amount of gabapentin absorbed by 12% to 15%. Gabapentin
had no effect on naproxen pharmacokinetic parameters. These doses are lower than the
therapeutic doses for both drugs. The magnitude of interaction within the recommended dose
ranges of either drug is not known.

Hydrocodone: Coadministration of Neurontin (125 to 500 mg; N=48) decreases hydrocodone
(10 mg; N=50) Cmax and AUC values in a dose-dependent manner relative to administration of
hydrocodone alone; Cmax and AUC values are 3% to 4% lower, respectively, after administration
of 125 mg Neurontin and 21% to 22% lower, respectively, after administration of 500 mg
Neurontin. The mechanism for this interaction is unknown. Hydrocodone increases gabapentin
AUC values by 14%. The magnitude of interaction at other doses is not known.

Morphine: A literature article reported that when a 60-mg controlled-release morphine capsule
was administered 2 hours prior to a 600-mg Neurontin capsule (N=12), mean gabapentin AUC
increased by 44% compared to gabapentin administered without morphine. Morphine pharmacokinetic parameter values were not affected by administration of Neurontin 2 hours after morphine. The magnitude of interaction at other doses
is not known.

Cimetidine: In the presence of cimetidine at 300 mg QID (N=12) the mean apparent oral
clearance of gabapentin fell by 14% and creatinine clearance fell by 10%. Thus cimetidine
appeared to alter the renal excretion of both gabapentin and creatinine, an endogenous marker of
renal function. This small decrease in excretion of gabapentin by cimetidine is not expected to be
of clinical importance. The effect of gabapentin on cimetidine was not evaluated.

Oral Contraceptive: Based on AUC and half-life, multiple-dose pharmacokinetic profiles of
norethindrone and ethinyl estradiol following administration of tablets containing 2.5 mg of
norethindrone acetate and 50 mcg of ethinyl estradiol were similar with and without
coadministration of gabapentin (400 mg TID; N=13). The Cmax of norethindrone was 13%
higher when it was coadministered with gabapentin; this interaction is not expected to be of
clinical importance.

Antacid (Maalox®): Maalox reduced the bioavailability of gabapentin (N=16) by about 20%.
This decrease in bioavailability was about 5% when gabapentin was administered 2 hours after
Maalox. It is recommended that gabapentin be taken at least 2 hours following Maalox
administration.

Effect of Probenecid: Probenecid is a blocker of renal tubular secretion. Gabapentin
pharmacokinetic parameters without and with probenecid were comparable. This indicates that
gabapentin does not undergo renal tubular secretion by the pathway that is blocked by
probenecid.

Drug/Laboratory Tests Interactions

Because false positive readings were reported with the Ames N-Multistix SG® dipstick test for
urinary protein when gabapentin was added to other antiepileptic drugs, the more specific
sulfosalicylic acid precipitation procedure is recommended to determine the presence of urine
protein.

Carcinogenesis, Mutagenesis, Impairment of Fertility
Gabapentin was given in the diet to mice at 200, 600, and 2000 mg/kg/day and to rats at 250,
1000, and 2000 mg/kg/day for 2 years. A statistically significant increase in the incidence of
pancreatic acinar cell adenomas and carcinomas was found in male rats receiving the high dose;
the no-effect dose for the occurrence of carcinomas was 1000 mg/kg/day. Peak plasma
concentrations of gabapentin in rats receiving the high dose of 2000 mg/kg were 10 times higher
than plasma concentrations in humans receiving 3600 mg per day, and in rats receiving
1000 mg/kg/day peak plasma concentrations were 6.5 times higher than in humans receiving
3600 mg/day. The pancreatic acinar cell carcinomas did not affect survival, did not metastasize
and were not locally invasive. The relevance of this finding to carcinogenic risk in humans is
unclear.
Studies designed to investigate the mechanism of gabapentin-induced pancreatic carcinogenesis
in rats indicate that gabapentin stimulates DNA synthesis in rat pancreatic acinar cells in vitro
and, thus, may be acting as a tumor promoter by enhancing mitogenic activity. It is not known
whether gabapentin has the ability to increase cell proliferation in other cell types or in other
species, including humans.
Gabapentin did not demonstrate mutagenic or genotoxic potential in three in vitro and four in
vivo assays. It was negative in the Ames test and the in vitro HGPRT forward mutation assay in
Chinese hamster lung cells; it did not produce significant increases in chromosomal aberrations
in the in vitro Chinese hamster lung cell assay; it was negative in the in vivo chromosomal
aberration assay and in the in vivo micronucleus test in Chinese hamster bone marrow; it was
negative in the in vivo mouse micronucleus assay; and it did not induce unscheduled DNA
synthesis in hepatocytes from rats given gabapentin.
No adverse effects on fertility or reproduction were observed in rats at doses up to 2000 mg/kg
(approximately 5 times the maximum recommended human dose on a mg/m2 basis).

Pregnancy
Pregnancy Category C: Gabapentin has been shown to be fetotoxic in rodents, causing delayed
ossification of several bones in the skull, vertebrae, forelimbs, and hindlimbs. These effects
occurred when pregnant mice received oral doses of 1000 or 3000 mg/kg/day during the period
of organogenesis, or approximately 1 to 4 times the maximum dose of 3600 mg/day given to
epileptic patients on a mg/m2 basis. The no-effect level was 500 mg/kg/day or approximately ½
of the human dose on a mg/m2 basis.
When rats were dosed prior to and during mating, and throughout gestation, pups from all dose
groups (500, 1000 and 2000 mg/kg/day) were affected. These doses are equivalent to less than
approximately 1 to 5 times the maximum human dose on a mg/m2 basis. There was an increased
incidence of hydroureter and/or hydronephrosis in rats in a study of fertility and general
reproductive performance at 2000 mg/kg/day with no effect at 1000 mg/kg/day, in a teratology
study at 1500 mg/kg/day with no effect at 300 mg/kg/day, and in a perinatal and postnatal study
at all doses studied (500, 1000 and 2000 mg/kg/day). The doses at which the effects occurred are
approximately 1 to 5 times the maximum human dose of 3600 mg/day on a mg/m2 basis; the noeffect
doses were approximately 3 times (Fertility and General Reproductive Performance study)
and approximately equal to (Teratogenicity study) the maximum human dose on a mg/m2 basis.
Other than hydroureter and hydronephrosis, the etiologies of which are unclear, the incidence of
malformations was not increased compared to controls in offspring of mice, rats, or rabbits given
doses up to 50 times (mice), 30 times (rats), and 25 times (rabbits) the human daily dose on a
mg/kg basis, or 4 times (mice), 5 times (rats), or 8 times (rabbits) the human daily dose on a
mg/m2 basis.
In a teratology study in rabbits, an increased incidence of postimplantation fetal loss occurred in
dams exposed to 60, 300, and 1500 mg/kg/day, or less than approximately ¼ to 8 times the
maximum human dose on a mg/m2 basis. There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in
pregnant women. This drug should be used during pregnancy only if the potential benefit
justifies the potential risk to the fetus.

Use in Nursing Mothers
Gabapentin is secreted into human milk following oral administration. A nursed infant could be
exposed to a maximum dose of approximately 1 mg/kg/day of gabapentin. Because the effect on
the nursing infant is unknown, Neurontin should be used in women who are nursing only if the
benefits clearly outweigh the risks.

DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE

The abuse and dependence potential of Neurontin has not been evaluated in human studies.

OVERDOSAGE
A lethal dose of gabapentin was not identified in mice and rats receiving single oral doses as
high as 8000 mg/kg. Signs of acute toxicity in animals included ataxia, labored breathing, ptosis,
sedation, hypoactivity, or excitation.
Acute oral overdoses of Neurontin up to 49 grams have been reported. In these cases, double
vision, slurred speech, drowsiness, lethargy and diarrhea were observed. All patients recovered
with supportive care.
Gabapentin can be removed by hemodialysis. Although hemodialysis has not been performed in
the few overdose cases reported, it may be indicated by the patient’s clinical state or in patients
with significant renal impairment.



Swim will write his experiences with the drug tommorrow after some rest.

[Laudaphun]

Ok, once a crackhead tried to give SWIM a bottle of these things knowing SWIM liked pills... SWIM said he didn't want them, but neither did the crackhead so she just gave them to SWIM for free. SWIM would take a couple of them at a time here and there when he was without anything else... The only effects SWIM noted were sleep and strange dreams... always strange dreams. Not really pleasant, not really unpleasant... just weird. Definitely no euphoria or buzz. SWIM supposes that used for an actual medical purpose they might be ok. SWIM would not recommend trying to abuse these.

[Ontherooftops]

GP is one of SWIM's favorite pharms, however SWIY should use much more than they expect. A close friend of SWIM's has shared his script of GP many times with SWIM. The exact dose is unclear, but the pills he was prescribed were round white and chalky and very difficult to swallow, and it's SWIM's estimation that they were 200mg put theres no way to be sure. SWIM takes about 8 of the 200mg for excellent effects. Necessary dosages can vary quite a bit but it seems pretty safe in a large range of doses, so SWIY might have to experiment a little.

SWIM reported that effects included pleasant calming euphoria and muscle relaxation, without the sedation of benzos. Lots of wobbling around and being really happy about it. SWIM also said that there were some mild opiate effects and visual enhancements.

SWIM almost lost his ballsack once at the hands of GP. Climbing around and lost his balance and almost got speared... SWIM read somewhere the action of GP is extremely similar to GHB, not sure if this is true, but they do both affect the GABA receptor.

SWIM is jealous

[Lehendakari]

SWIm likes GP but it's a weird drug. First he only take it in combination with alcohol and methylphenidate. Then he used it by it's own. For him GP is not sedating, is more of a psychedellic.

He takes around 2000-3000 mg and he feels like a bit stoned, music definitely sounds better, and he has euphoric moments. But the weird think about it is that it stimulates inner thoughts in a similar way cannabis does but without the paranoia.

If he takes it and goes for a walk, he just goes by observing things he normally doesn't and he is in his own world and cannot be bothered. He would compare it to a light dose of mushrooms. He also experience a profound anxiolityc effect

It's not sedating but coordination and movement can become difficult. Compares a bit to GHB in its anxiolytic effect and euphoria, but they are quite different in his opinion.

[untoasty1]

how is it with alcohol? and how is it with ritalin? i have 1800 mgs i'm itching to take

[Lehendakari]

Very euphoric and dishinibited, caution is advised though. You get pissed rather quickly and strong. A monkey should take very little amounts of alcohol if any at all. SWIM usually takes 2400 mg at 10pm then takes a good meal and prepares 4 the night. He takes a couple of drinks and downs the rits. If he is ok keeps having drinks and ritts but very carefully. He takes maybe 4 drinks and 40 mg ritalin and it's enough for him and don't want to risk it. He has great tolerance for alcohol. Healthy male 80 kg.

[untoasty1]

well i just took 1800mg about an hour ago, so i'll let you guys know how it went later tonight.

[cannedheat1985]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabapentin

SWIM landed a bag of them Gabapentin 600mg i belive. What do they do. Are they any fun. Maybe just to relax, or to help with speed comedowns? I have no idea. SWIM has not touched them yet. Any thoughts? Elaborate.

Gracias

[Heretic.Ape.]

To sum it all up in a word: no. Not much to elaborate on, sorry.

[Broshious]

To sum it all up in a word: no. Not much to elaborate on, sorry.

SWIM begs to differ. It seems hit or miss with some people loving it and others it does nothing though.

[JDreaming]

Gabapentin is one of the way-too-many medications SWIM has been put on in the past, before getting off most his medications recently. He was prescribed it as a mood stabilizer, and when he learned that nearly every study of Gabapentin's effects as a mood stabilizer (except for a couple that were personally done by the manufacturer) found it no more effective than a placebo, SWIM decided to get off of it. SWIM took Gabapentin for two years and can't really tell what, if anything, it did to him the whole time.

On rare occasion's SWIM has forgotten about one dose of pills he took and accidentally taken a double dose. When SWIM has gone above the recommended dose of Gabapentin, the effects could best be described as "fuzzy and vaguely uncomfortable."

This really has no potential as any kind of recreational substance whatsoever in my personal opinion... and I don't think it's a very good psychiatric medication either. SWIY might as well throw it away and move on.

[cannedheat1985]

cool ill try some tomorow, any precautions, and how much should i start with? im 5'10" 190lbs. male 22.

[Heretic.Ape.]

First recommendation: read the rules (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules) paying special attention to those regarding self incrimination please.
Since swiy seems rather set on taking them I will withold my second recommendation.
Third recommendation: study more about them before taking them, hold off a day or two until swiy knows more about them than what he read on (ugh) wikipedia.
Be safe
h.a.

[Broshious]

Erowid has a fair number of reports on Gabapentin.

[cannedheat1985]

First recommendation: read the rules (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules) paying special attention to those regarding self incrimination please.
Since swiy seems rather set on taking them I will withold my second recommendation.
Third recommendation: study more about them before taking them, hold off a day or two until swiy knows more about them than what he read on (ugh) wikipedia.
Be safe
h.a.

my mistake. swim is interested. dont hold back info benificial to swim if possible. swim pays taxes and swim isnt too worried about what he can and cant do. this is america.

[Heretic.Ape.]

^^ famous last words before ending up getting sodomized by neo-nazis in a cage. Civil liberties do not apply to drug users. Write that down.
h.a.

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM landed a bag of them Gabapentin 600mg i belive. What do they do. Are they any fun. Maybe just to relax, or to help with speed comedowns? I have no idea. SWIM has not touched them yet. Any thoughts? Elaborate.

Gabapentin is a very effective drug for Restless Legs Syndrome, so if SWIY gets restless legs when coming off amphetamines (As SWIM does) then using Gabapentin may be beneficial. A small percentage of people using this drug have found it to be addictive so it should be taken with care.

[DaWeez]

Ok here is my Erowid report: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=55372

I know I am a new member and people may or may not believe that it is mine, but I am also a respected member of another drug community, some who may even go here.

Anywho, the report basically susbtitutes my post about Neurontin

[Jatelka]

^^^ Oh, and you appear to be Underage! Over 18's only please: Do come back then.

[smithdogg1]

So in the quest for SWIM to stop taking Ativan for treatment of Insomnia, his doc has so far tried an SSRI (Celexa) which was horrible and Clonidine, which made SWIM physically tired, but did not put his mind at ease enough to help with sleep. SWIM’s Doc not wants to try Gabapentin, is anyone taking this for insomnia? Does it help? It seems like a weird drug that has many uses.

[jesusfreak666er]

gapapentin is not a good medication for insomnia, neither is clonidine, or an ssri..... swim might consider finding a better doctor. Gapapentin is a medication who's manufacturors have whored themselves out to the fda so that it could be approved for millions of uses which most of them it doesnt even successfully treat. From spasms to bi polar they'd like you to think it does it all. Swim finds it simply not sedating enough to be a good sleep aid, maybe consider asking about lunestra or ambian. The only thing swim could imagine swiys doctor taking you from a weak benzo like ativan and moving siwy onto a laundry list of poor choices would be abuse problems. Did swims doctor want to pursue a less addictive or abusable sleep aid, if not swim couldnt understand his/her choices

[smithdogg1]

SWIM was actually the one who wanted to get away from it, and suggested to his doc that he try other things, it works great even at low (1 mg) doses but it is too dependant forming. But on another note SWIM does not think his doc would have continued to prescribe it anyway, as she has mentioned many times that it is only a short term solution and that SWIM can’t stay on it for long. So one way or another, the Ativan is going to go away. SWIM would love to try ambient or lunesta, but his doc is against those drugs for whatever reason. SWIM thinks you are right about finding someone else.

[BobTheGreat]

whoops swim forgot about this thread.

medically: swim found GP semi-useful( he was on 900mg twice daily before he switched meds). Swim found the effective dose made him too tired too be useful. He has since switched to xanax and now Klonopin which works much better. Swim still uses a low dose in combination since he has a stockpile which seems to make the kpins more effective when his anxiety is really bad.

Recreationally swim has found GP makes swim a very happy drunk when mixed with beer. He usually takes about 600-900 mg before going out drinking. He is very relaxed and social after a couple beers and can control the drunkenness(is that even a word?) much more easily than benzos ie he remembers the whole night rather than just the first half. hope this helps.:)

damn it cant edit.:( medically by low dose he means ~600mg.

He also tried sniffing the stuff after breaking open a capsule. He says it burned a little and provided a small rush. overall not worth it.

Also to anyone who has tried kava: the feeling is very similar esspecially at higher dosing(3000+mgs)

[Lehendakari]

After experimenting further into GP SWIM now thinks GP is not recreative at all. It has psychoactive effects, but these are just a weird slow-head sensation. Not pleasant, not unpleasant, just a weird feeling of brain fog.

He now thinks his previous good experiences were just he wanting it to do something good. He gave up after 20+ trials with different doses.

Medically, it doesn't seem to reduce too much social anxiety, but swims sleeps rather well when on it.

[chrisn]

A report was recently posted at Erowid that greatly interested me: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=65123

This person chalks up the effects mostly to the Gabapentin, but I haven't heard of others getting open and closed eye visuals, so maybe the seroquel had an unusual synergy? Any others gotten effects like the ones in this report?

[BobTheGreat]

A report was recently posted at Erowid that greatly interested me: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=65123

This person chalks up the effects mostly to the Gabapentin, but I haven't heard of others getting open and closed eye visuals, so maybe the seroquel had an unusual synergy? Any others gotten effects like the ones in this report?

skimmed the report but most likely the seroquel was resposible for the visuals since it is listed as one of the possible side effects esspecially at 200mgs assuming it was his first day on it as it sounds. GP has a light action on the gaba receptors(meaning increased drowsiness) so it could very well have helped things along.

[smithdogg1]

Here are SWIM’s updates so far. First time trying it he took 300mg and drank three beers, this made SWIM feel very sedated and he could not wait to go to bed, when he did he had no problem falling asleep, Un-like he normally does. It should also be noted that drinking three beers alone will not help SWIM fall asleep.

Next day SWIM took 200mg before bedtime, with no beers. SWIM had problems getting to sleep, it felt like he was half awake half asleep (much like a 100mg dose of Diphenhydramine). SWIM went to bed at 10 PM, but thinks he didn’t fall asleep until around 1 AM, he then awoke again at 3:30 AM and tossed and turned until about 4:30-5:00 AM, this is normal for SWIM when sleeping with no meds, so it seems that the Gabapentin had no effect here.

Day three SWIM decided to take 600mg and go out for a few drinks, he only had one beer and a stiff mixed drink. He is now home and feels pretty relaxed, more buzzed than normal off of just a two drinks, but it certainly did not make him social, pretty much the opposite. SWIM decided to take another 100mg pill just now before he goes to bed at 11PM.Will report back how the sleep was, but so far in my very limited trial, it seems to help when mixed with just a few drinks, but alone does not do much for SWIM.

[Broshious]

Here are SWIM’s updates so far. First time trying it he took 300mg and drank three beers, this made SWIM feel very sedated and he could not wait to go to bed, when he did he had no problem falling asleep, Un-like he normally does. It should also be noted that drinking three beers alone will not help SWIM fall asleep.

Next day SWIM took 200mg before bedtime, with no beers. SWIM had problems getting to sleep, it felt like he was half awake half asleep (much like a 100mg dose of Diphenhydramine). SWIM went to bed at 10 PM, but thinks he didn’t fall asleep until around 1 AM, he then awoke again at 3:30 AM and tossed and turned until about 4:30-5:00 AM, this is normal for SWIM when sleeping with no meds, so it seems that the Gabapentin had no effect here.

Day three SWIM decided to take 600mg and go out for a few drinks, he only had one beer and a stiff mixed drink. He is now home and feels pretty relaxed, more buzzed than normal off of just a two drinks, but it certainly did not make him social, pretty much the opposite. SWIM decided to take another 100mg pill just now before he goes to bed at 11PM.Will report back how the sleep was, but so far in my very limited trial, it seems to help when mixed with just a few drinks, but alone does not do much for SWIM.

SWIM needed to hit 1600mg before he got anything special.

[smithdogg1]

SWIM needed to hit 1600mg before he got anything special.

Wow, since SWIM only has 100mg pills that would be a lot of his supply. and BTW SWIM had no issues sleeping last night, but he feels pretty shitty this morning, more out of it than normal and again very similar to how Diphenhydramine makes him feel the next day.

[BobTheGreat]

Smith,

100mgs of GP is really, really small dose. Is this what swiy was prescribed?
Also GP sucks as a treatment for insomnia. Swim has taken 5g+ in a night and not felt any drowsier than a couple mgs of xanax.

Swim suffers from insomina and found that a full day of industrial work and a low dose of trazodone(75mg) worked well.

Im assuming swiy doc wont prescribe abient or lunesta because they have short half lifes. Ativan has a longer half life meaning it is potentally less addicitve(It stays in ones system longer giving a slow come down. Hence ones body doesnt send signals to re-up ie addiction)

A couple of nonaddictive options are Ramelteon(rozerem) and trazodone. As far as swim knows these can be taken as long as necessary.

ambient or lunesta might be a good option. If swiy has trouble staying asleep as well, Ambient CR would be the best choice of these three.

Also does swiy get much exercise? Like I said before my labrat found a full day of work helped a lot. Swiy might want to consider taking a nice evening jog(not too late though or swiy's body will still be metabolically active from the exercise making falling asleep even harder.) Plus swiy gets the added bonus of being healthier.

[Jatelka]

BobTheGreat: Trazodone produces a withdrawal syndome, so really can't be described as "non-addictive"

(see here... http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=241743&postcount=51)

[smithdogg1]

Smith,

100mgs of GP is really, really small dose. Is this what swiy was prescribed?
Also GP sucks as a treatment for insomnia. Swim has taken 5g+ in a night and not felt any drowsier than a couple mgs of xanax.

Swim suffers from insomina and found that a full day of industrial work and a low dose of trazodone(75mg) worked well.

Im assuming swiy doc wont prescribe abient or lunesta because they have short half lifes. Ativan has a longer half life meaning it is potentally less addicitve(It stays in ones system longer giving a slow come down. Hence ones body doesnt send signals to re-up ie addiction)

A couple of nonaddictive options are Ramelteon(rozerem) and trazodone. As far as swim knows these can be taken as long as necessary.

ambient or lunesta might be a good option. If swiy has trouble staying asleep as well, Ambient CR would be the best choice of these three.

Also does swiy get much exercise? Like I said before my labrat found a full day of work helped a lot. Swiy might want to consider taking a nice evening jog(not too late though or swiy's body will still be metabolically active from the exercise making falling asleep even harder.) Plus swiy gets the added bonus of being healthier.

Yes this is what SWIM is prescribed, he has not been even bothering with it, he is just back to taking 1mg of Ativan on nights when he cannot sleep. And yes SWIMs doc is against Ambien and Lunesta, although SWIM would love to try them. As far as exercise, SWIM used to work out hard three times a week and found it did help some nights, but like you mentioned could also make things worse. With SWIMs new job he is home too late to go to the gym which sucks, but SWIM does work a long day, getting up a 6:30 AM and getting home at 6:30 PM (this is the commute included) so he is usually physically tired, but his mind is not :(

[BobTheGreat]

BobTheGreat: Trazodone produces a withdrawal syndome, so really can't be described as "non-addictive"

(see here... http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showpost.php?p=241743&postcount=51)

My bad. I think the word I was looking for was non-abusable.


Random thought: Is it possible swiOP has adhd? Swim and his step bro both have it and have the same problem with sleeping. Swim is trying to find a solution but having trouble finding a good doc.

smith,

Since youre interested in ambien and luensta, Ill assume swiy has good insurance. Ask swiy doc about roserem or like i said before find a new doc if swiy really wants one of the others.

Some otc suppliments that might help are melatonin, GABA, phenibut, and 5htp.

Swim finds that watching a couple of hours of mindless TV(Futurama, simpsons, scrubs, late nite with conan, just nothing that simulates thinking) before bed helps him a lot and staying away from stimulates(cigs, coffee) late at night.

[squaliesquad]

SWIM was recently prescribed Gabapentin (Neurontin) as an alternative to Clonazepam (Klonopin) and was wondering what a good dosage is to take to try it recreationally, and what's the best way to take it. SWIM has no tolerance to it and has it in capsules and the booklet he got from the pharmacy said it can be taken whole or the contents of the capsules can be dissolved in juice or over soft foods (ie applesauce) immediately before swallowing.

basically SWIM wants to know the dosage (he's guessing around 1800 from other reports) and if it's better to take the capsules whole or to put the powder in a juice, or maybe soda if that would work since he heard that helps with the absorption.


SWIM has done some research (read reports on erowid and did a search on this godsend of a forum) on the drug but is open to any information or advice, and thanks anyone who replies in advance.

[squaliesquad]

SWIM just realized there's no edit button but apologizes if this is not the correct forum for this topic.

[Nagognog2]

It is in the correct forum. The drug is a wild card that doesn't quite fit anywhere else - so this is a good home for your query.

[squaliesquad]

SWIM took 11 100mg capsules and washed it down with soda, then took 8 100mg pills and opened the capsules and put the contents in a 5L Poland Spring bottle with crystal light and drank it.. it didn't taste as bad as SWIM thought it would, but he chased it with soda to get rid of the bitterness.


SWIM then went over to a friends house and smoked a good amount of bud, overall it was a good experience but he's still feeling the effects, it definitely is a wild card and it's hard to compare it to any other drugs.

SWIM is a heavy guy so 1800mgs might not be a good dose for everyone, I don't know how this drug works in that way.. it was a good starting point for me though.

[blackirish]

canned heat may have rights but it's best if you can defend them yourself. according to the product monograph 4% of patients experienced euphoria. so either you are lucky or not.

[Neugtivr62k7]

Too much Gababpentin like I took 5,000 to 8,000 at bedtime way over what I was prescribed will give you the worst muscle aches and hip aches you could ever have. My rule of thumb was take as many as you can fit in your mouth. It wears off but you can't walk until it does.

[BobTheGreat]

I was asked in a rating where I got the Gabapentin info so the site for this is pfizer's website. I think it was for the actual gabapentin website for pfiezer. I look toworrow but its new years eve and swim is half in the bag.

[bob_arctor]

untoasty: how did the project go?

[Female]

Alright, so SWIM has a regular supply of Gaba, and is a bit low on any other pharms atm. She's willing to give it a try. She'll try 1,800mgs (three 600mg pills) and see what the effects are. Will edit soon.

After about an hour and a half after ingestion of the three pills, SWIM definitely started to feel something. She felt relaxed, near giddy, but not *enough* yet, so she ended up ingested one more 600mg pill, and then a half, so that brought the total for the night up to 2,700mgs.

An hour after that dose, SWIM felt great. Very chatty, very drunk sounding. Slurring speech, wobbling around when she walked. Akin to being very drug but without dizziness or stomach problems. SWIM was extremely giddy and happy. SWIM was almost expecting to pass out asleep after a while, but she ending up staying up until around 6 in the morning. Wide awake, still feeling out of it, but not asleep. Weird! When she did sleep, she slept hard. Sprawled out on the bed and everything. Definitely a fun night though.

With just a little bit of alcohol, a lower dosage of Gabapentin (maybe around 1200mgs) is very nice. Very fun synergy with alcohol.

Let SWIM tell you though, there is a tolerance build up fast, or at least she thinks. She tried some Gabapentin the next night and had almost no effects, no giggly, no wobbling fun, no slurring speech. Just spacey. Tolerance definitely builds fast. The only downside to the trip is having to take that many pills to get a good effect.

[ironmics]

Swim has a huge supply left over from last year. He still has around 50g of it. He's been taking around 900mg at a time or 600 with beer or 20mg of amitryptiline.

900mg by itself:
Sorta benzo like, more pleasant and not as strong. I would say 900mg is about 5-10mg of valium type effects. Not very strong, but very relaxing and pleasant. It leads to great sleep with no hangover, but he's very reluctant to get out of bed. He slept about 10 hours last night.

600mg with alcohol:
Fantastic effects most of the time. He relates it to at least doubling or tripling the amount of alcohol drank, but in a good way(no stomach problems). He had 600mg last weekend with probably around 3 shots of vodka in a drink and 2 beers. Not very much for him maybe a mild buzz. However, with the gabapentin he felt amazing, tons of euphoria and relaxation. Social setting probably helped this a lot.

600mg with 60mg Codeine:
Pleasant, relaxing, a little bit better than with just one or the other.

600mg with 10mg Amitryptiline:
Quite interesting, kept him up all night for some odd reason. A bit different then on it's own. Very good night's sleep, with no dreams though. He went to bed at 5am and all of a sudden it was Noon. Usually he wakes up a few times during the night, but not here.

[Female]

Every time SWIM indulges in more than 2000mgs of Gabapentin, she ends up staying up the entire night, unable to sleep. Any idea why, or do any other swims out there have the same effect?

[BobTheGreat]

Every time SWIM indulges in more than 2000mgs of Gabapentin, she ends up staying up the entire night, unable to sleep. Any idea why, or do any other swims out there have the same effect?

Odd but swim has the same problem with Diphenhydramine at about 100mgs. The only advice I can give: If swiy is having fun, dont worry about it. If swiy wants to sleep, dont take too much, wait for a better day, or take them in the day at higher doses. A smaller dose with a little alcohol may give the same effect swiy is looking for without the insomnia.

Gabapentin doesnt do much for swim on the drowsiness either and he has taken 8000+mgs.

Unfortunately for you gabapentin is used to treat insomnia so after about a dozen tries of different searches on google swim has given up.

[Female]

SWIM can attest to that. Diphenhydramine just makes her uncomfortably tired, unable to sleep, like she's stuck in that between state of wanting to drift off but is still conscious. Wonder why Gabapentin is treated for insomnia if it makes someone zombie around the whole night instead of sleep? Heh.

[BobTheGreat]

SWIM can attest to that. Diphenhydramine just makes her uncomfortably tired, unable to sleep, like she's stuck in that between state of wanting to drift off but is still conscious. Wonder why Gabapentin is treated for insomnia if it makes someone zombie around the whole night instead of sleep? Heh.

So they can send drug addicts and patients alike through hell to get something worthwhile. Or in some cases it does work. At any rate it is unscheduled so doctors dont have to worry about their licenses getting revoked.

Edit: it does have a weak binding to the GABA receptors which will cause some sedation.

[kinkar]

Swim loves gabapentin. Everything seems more interesting under its effects and notes a mood lift as well as occasional muscle spasms i.e. hand jerks sideways for no reason or leg muscles twitch

[d0wn3r]

Swim is glad to see this thread, as he has just been prescribed this drug (for medical reasons), and... the medical practitioners in charge have discontinued Swim's use of drugs that actually work for his problem(s) (thank the medical establishment! Any time you think a medication works, leave it up to THEM to tell you what works and what doesn't. Classic).
On top of it, the extremely low dosage which was prescribed (300mg before bedtime) is either a bad joke in itself, or lulz about the severity of my condition. ("Yeah? you have depression? Anxiety? Suicidal? hahaha how cuuuute! He wants meds.")


LATER EDIT:

Due to Swims conditions (extreme depression and severe anxiety being the most prevalent), and due to the fact that Neurontin is hilariously ineffective for his agony, Swim has decided to begin self-medicating with it. Of course, its nothing compared to what recreational Gabapentin users have said they started out with.
So, Swim was prescribed 300mg at bedtime (Swim wonders if this means everytime you go to sleep for the night, or everytime you lie down out of exhaustion...). Still unsure of the overall safety of this drug (especially in his own particular case; apparently, as much good is said about Gabapentin, there's a lot of bad to be said about it) Swim decided to start taking it more like 300mg 3 times a day.... he hasn't gotten that far yet.

Swim took 300mg a few hours after waking up (dosed somewhere around 10:15pm-ish?). Swim is still feeling the effects at 1:36am, which remind him of a mild acid trip without the paranoia or complete bad-trip that anxiety can cause with hallucinogens.
Swim is in fact hallucinating, slight visuals. Noticing his book-bag, Swim saw that there was (and is) a coloured aura playing about its edges. Swim also gets that weird tingly feeling he got from being on acid.
Swim is unsure of whether or not he should take more for another dose in a few hours, or not.
Perhaps just before bed.

Neurontin is completely laughable (in Swims case) for the effective treatment of depression or anxiety.
Perhaps only peole who aren't depressive feel the tension lift, Swim knows not.
Swim believes that there is a conspiracy afoot with which the Powers That Be wish to get everyone zombified on so-called "anti-depressants" and the like, instead of marketing medication that actually works.
They claim that "they don't want you to form a habitual dependence" on the drugs that work, so then they prescrbe you something which you already must take daily, and is even more dangerous of stopping than with other drugs.

Neurontin = only good for recreational purposes.

(Sorry, Swim had to vent a bit)

d0wn3r added 400 Minutes and 35 Seconds later...

btw, can anyone tell Swim the usual duration of the effects of this drug?

All Swim can find online is "like, I was high for x amount of hours."

What is the actual duration, if anyone knows?

d0wn3r added 577 Minutes and 39 Seconds later...

Yeeeeaaahh... also, if anyone could tell Swim about the possible interatcions with mixing Gabapentin and DXM, that`d be greeeaat. Thanks.

Just curious because Swim did not notice DXM on the list of drugs that can affect or interact with Gaba. Any other swims tried it?

[gmeziscool2354]

I was prescribed neurontin once, the total script was like 90 400 mg pills. I think the prescribed dossage for some one my size (205 male) was something like 1200 mg's a day in 3 dossages.
some one who wasn't me discovered that this drug could produce some interesting effects. One thing that my buddy discovered was that this drug creeps on very sudenly, expect up to 4 hours to notice something for an inexperienced user. This drug one of the safest pharmaceutical drugs for a recreational user to be prescribed too because it has very little dangers when mixed with alcohol. its one of the only drugs of its kind that does not have a clear do not take with alcohol warning.

in terms of how it felt to this guy, he tells me that it can be a somewhat depressant, but it also has a very noticeable stimulating effect. it may be likened to the "speedy" effect of some pyschodelics, but stating this may be misleading. He told me specifically that in terms of effects this drug is not like X or LSD.

my freind noticed that since it takes a long time to take effect he would frequently take more than necessary. a dose of about 1600 mg's should be suffeicent with one re-dosing for a fairly long experience.

Gabapentin ephederine and cannabis produced a long lasting high that my freind found quite enjoyable. he would sugest trying this combo or something similar.

gmeziscool2354 added 3 Minutes and 0 Seconds later...

oh, and i wanted to say that it is unscheduled and can be purchased in many ways even if you don't have health insurance for fairly cheap

[HealthybodySickmind]

Gabapentin is great and has become one of my favorite drugs as of recently because my PO doesn't test for it. I notice mild visual effects. I feel like I'm in the 4th dimension when i take 3600mg.

[HealthybodySickmind]

swim is on 3600 mg of gabapentin and wants to know if its safe to trip on dxm.

[gmeziscool2354]

i hear its a nice mix. hear it feels like acid, some what of a speedier more mental dxm. Quite different at times. Some of the light/dark effects are intensified/altered by the gabapentin. its hard to explain, but walking through a relatively unfamiliar had this scary kind of psychedelic dissociation. some what difficult to explain.
I've also heard that it is better to take the gabapentin before the dxm as it takes along time to reach its intended effects. 3-4 hours seemed to be good for the experimenter

[Mona Lisa]

SWIM prefers pregabalan (450mg usually). More euphoric and lasts longer (cheaper too, at least her source is:crazy)

[runitsthepolice]

Swim notices that this is used in the treatment of GHB withdrawls. How does this drug compare in effects to that of GHB?