Benzodiazepine Tolerance

[t3h_1337]

I like to take Klonopin every morning before school. I like the way it makes me feel. When I am on it I am a lot more socialible and I feel less anxious. I have been taking .5 mg about 2 days a week.


Once I took 1 mg and I really liked how that made me feel.


I was wondering if I would develop a tolerance if I took .5 mg on monday through friday in the morning. What about 1 mg? What about 1.5 mg and what about 2 mg?


By the way I am male, 6'0'', and 125 pounds.

[t3h_1337]

I meant to say that I weight 145 (125 is way too skinny). Sorry about the typo, I would fix it, but there is no edit...

[mattp]

if you take klonopins 5 days a week, at any dose, you will eventually develop a toleramce and may even become addicted.

a rule of thumb for abusing/using addictive substances is for whatever
amount of days you use it for, take 2x that off. it helps keep the
tolerance down.

[ToxicMind]

Taking any pill mon-fri every single week will cause you to build up a tolerance. If you plan to take them that often, take small doses. If you want to take higher doses, then you should take them less often.

[pbiiau]

you will not develop a tolerance to the anxiolytic effects of benzos... nobody will.

[Gahaba22]

Klonopin is much safer to take than say xanax. You should still be careful if you are taking 2+ mg (Klonopin) a day for weeks and then stopping cold turkey.

[Softrat]

I wouldn't take Klonopin every day unless you have a good medical reason to do so. Klonopin is very physically addictive and can be difficult to break.

[BlueMystic]

If you develop a habit of using clonozapam or any other benzo. Then please don't stop taking them cold turkey. Quitting any benzo cold turkey can be life threatening. At the very least you can have some serious seizures. Benxo withdrawal can be worse then opiate withdrawal. You have been warned.

[Nicaine]

In my opinion, Klonopin is probably the least addictive of the benzos (altho gradual withdrawal is important if you've been on it a long time & need to go off). It's also the least entertaining from a recreational perspective. IMO, Xanax takes the prize for both addictiveness and recreational value.

As far as tolerance... I've been on K. legally (script) for years. I developed a tolerance as far as feeling a 'buzz' (I get absolutely none), but not as far as needing to increase the dosage to be effective at relieving nervousness. I'm at about the same dosage I was years ago, and it still does what it's supposed to do. Treat it with respect, and it treats ya back.

I noticed you said this:

I like to take Klonopin every morning before school. I like the way it makes me feel. When I am on it I am a lot more socialible and I feel less anxious.
Do you have a script for it? If not, you should see a doc and try getting one. Sounds like you might legitimately find it helpful in everyday life. "Social anxiety" is a real killer that can ruin quality of life & lead to trouble finding/keeping jobs, friends, all sorts of crap. Take it from me, I have reason to know.Edited by: Nicaine

[jesusfreak666er]

Im on klonopin, by rx, along with my own self medication. I take 1mg 2 times a day. I feel it is less addictive then xanax (duh) and has 10x the potency of ativan which i was on b4. I love the medication, it helps me make it through the day. Fyi all benzodiazapines are habbit forming and if you take them for about 5-7 days straight you willnotice a "withdrawl" it might be as small as feeling a lil anxious or you might have seizures that is why it is important to always ease your way off any benzo. Regarding tolerance of course you develop tolerance... i used to take 1mg of ativan 2x a day then moved to 2mg 2x a day then i finally moved to klonopin... everyone develops tolerance at a different rate and as long as you have a doctor and are not getting these drugs off the street its no problem they are more then aware of the habit forming natures of benzos and tolerance you develop

[Mike177]

If SWIM were to take 1mg of Xanax three times daily how long would it take for SWIM to need more xanax to get the same effect? Keep in mind we are talking therapeutic doses. So, what’s the average time? And what would a conservative estimate be? Thanks in advance.

[BlueMystic]

1 mg three times daily can be a rather high dose for most. Since youre talking about theraputic use and sound as if you are self medicating. you should start out with .25 - .50 mg's once or maybe even twice a day. It should work for a long time theraputically. If you were using for recretional purposes. Then a particular dose would lose its magic within days.

[truestbet]

Taking 1 mg 3 times a day willbe good at first, but it will slowly become less and less effective. I would say tolerance will start within a week and will progress more after a month, and more after several months. Clinically, patients areprescribed to take up to 6mg per day, i know it sounds like a lot, but with tolerance and taking it for long amounts of time, it really isn't. If you have no tolerance at this point and don't weigh a lot, you might want to start out at .5 twice to three times a day. Less ismore, since eventually you are going to reach a point in which tolerance will overpower even the therapeutic effect. Take as little as you can, and save the extra pills for when your tolerance has taken over and it has little effect on you anymore. Quitting for a few weeks or months will help the tolerance, but don't just quit all together, make sure you taper off of them, or you could suffer some serious adverse reactions. Your best bet to combat tolerance would be to just take it in situations where you feel you would most need it, the situations that make you most anxious.

[skitz0frantic]

Tolerance is the process by which the receptors in your brain become habituated to the action of a drug. When tolerance is reached, more of the drug is required to achieve the same effect. With benzodiazepines, and probably with many other classes of drugs as well, tolerance is virtually always associated with some degree of physical dependence.

[Fuzz]

how bad are the withdrawals from xanax?

[pharmapsyche]

--for the post above mine...


Withdrawls from Alprazolam (xanax) seem to be different for everyone. It depends on a lot of differnt things, such as if you use it alot, if you dont, your weight, your addictive personality, how many mg's you usually take and all of that. Usually they aren't too bad if dose's aren't taken everyday, but they can become life altering if dose's are taken daily and you quit at once. It's best to slow down and quit one day at a time!Edited by: pharmapsyche

[Jatelka]

how bad are the withdrawals from xanax?


Unsurehow Xanax withdrawal compares to other benzosbut benzo withdrawal generally causes:


Psychological symptoms: anxiety** (including panic attacks), depression**, insomnia*, derealisation/depersonalisation* (feelings of unreality/detachment from self), obsessive negative thoughts*, (particularly of a violent and/or sexual nature) rapid mood changes* (especially including outbursts of anger or rage), phobias* (especially agoraphobia and fear of insanity), dysphoria* (loss of capacity to enjoy life; possibility a combination of depression, anxiety, and derealisation/depersonalisation), impairment of cognitive functioning*, suicidal thoughts*, nightmares, hallucinations, psychosis, pill cravings. Note that it is far more common to fear psychosis than it is to actually experience it.
Physical Symptoms: abnormal sensitivity to sensory stimuli* (such as loud noise or bright light), muscle tension/pain**, joint pain*, tinnitus*, headaches*, shaking/tremors*, blurred vision* (and other complications related to the eyes), itchy skin* (including formication, ie sensations of insects crawling on skin), gastrointestinal discomfort*, electric shock sensations*, paraesthesiae* (numbness and pins and needles, especially in extremities), fatigue*, weakness in the extremities* (particularly the legs), feelings of inner vibrations* (especially in the torso), sweating, fluctuations in body temperature, difficulty in swallowing, loss of appetite, "flu like" symptoms, fasciculations (muscle twitching), metallic taste in mouth, nausea, extreme thirst (including dry mouth and increased frequency of urination), sexual dysfunction (or occasional increase in libido), heart palpitations, dizziness, vertigo, breathlessness.
Reasons why you should never stop benzos suddenly (even if you have only been taking benzodiazepines daily for a period of 3-4 weeks) or rapidly reduce doses if tolerant and taking high doses:
- confusion
- delirium
- hallucinations (probably not fun ones!)
- psychotic symptoms
- seizures

Benzo withdrawl fits are very difficult to treat medically, because users have high tolerance to benzos which are the first line drug in someone who's been fitting for more than 5 minutes. Therefore users require much higher doses of benzos than people who don't use. This often leads to a rebound effect where benzo adverse effects (ie: respiratory depression) occur much more readily (ie: trip to intensive care). If benzos don't work to control fits you are then heading into the realms of intravenous phenytoin (adverse effects include resistant heart arrythmias), and if this doesn't work then sedation with propofol (anaesthetic agent) which requires intubation and mechanical ventilation
The other problem with benzo withdrawal is that symptoms can be very protracted, often stretching into months.

Bear in mind you can also experience a "tolerance withdrawal" where you start to experience some of the effects above from your normalbenzo dose. The temptation here is to increase your dose.
Always consult your doctor before you attempt to withdraw (there are some sympathetic ones out there, although I know that many posters here have not found this to be the case)

Edited by: jatelka

[BlackEyed]

I took two xanax bars recently and
they worked great but i just took one bar and didnt feel
a thing is there anyway i can bring my tolerance down or should i
just up the dose?<!--
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[Pinkavvy]

'try pluggin it dood'

no... really... start with a half of one. ;)

[hazejunk]

If you wait a couple of weeks youre tolerance wil be down so you can enjoy 1 xanax bar agian. You can also just take 1,5 but tolerance just keeps on growing, so pretty soon you will need 2 and then 3 and more and more .So my advice is to wait till youre tolerance is down.......

[BlackEyed]

haha i took 5 bars and didnt feel anything so im done wiht them for a while<!--
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[IHrtHalucingens]

How fast does a benzo tolerance develop? I have used xanax countless times in the past, however it was only like once a month, cuz i stole them from my mom and only when she got a new prescription so she wouldnt notice, so i never really had a chance to develop an addiction. But recently i have faked an anxiety issue to obtain my own xanax prescription. I used to take anywhere from 3-12mg when i got it from my mom. so the first day i got my prescription i thought id start off with 4mg and it was a good time i really felt the effects. So the next day i took 4mg again expecting the same reaction, but i felt almost nothing. Could my tolerance to this pill have grown that much that soon? or could there be another reason? Both times i smoked a few bowls as well and ate about the same amount of food throughout the day.

[Jeyez]

thats a tricky question bro... for recreational tolerance it is completely different then medicinal tolerance.... for instance I was on klonapin, by the 2nd-3rd week i no longer felt tired and sedate what so ever (not to say kpins are that strong) but though I became tolerant of the seditive effect, it still controlled my anxiety extremely well. Everyone develops tolerance at a different rate but if i were u and u were tryin to use benzos for fun not for medicinal purposes, try to take a 1 week break and go benzo free, then start up again u will lose a great deal of ur tolerance, but with drugs like valium they can stay in ur system for a long time not to say they are still active but i dont know how that will effect my idea, but it worked with klonapin.

[IHrtHalucingens]

yeah ive already decided on this. Xanax, while being alto of fun, makes me very unproductive, and i get affected greatly by the memory loss part, i really never remember ne thing that happens while im on them, afterwords. i usually work out everyday but not on xanax i dont do shit. not good

[sands of time]

Do you have any sense of whats right and whats wrong??? You steal medication from your mother who needs them FOR A MEDICAL CONDITION... Then you fake a medical condition to get high. People like you don't deserve drugs to begin with, you need a swift ass wooping by your damn parents.

[IHrtHalucingens]

Well if it makes u feel any better i have been drug free, of all sorts, for 17 days now. i know that thats not really a long time but it is for me. as much as i like to get high, i agree with you, i am doing them for all the wrong reasons and in the wrong ways, thats why i have decided to make a change in my life. i realize the errors in my ways and am trying to act more responsibly.

[Richard_smoker]

a lot of times, people who develop benzo addictions, will also develop a comorbid anxiety disorder. the anxiety disorder will be treatable with chronic benzo prescriptions, but you will never be able to obtain the same 'high' that you did which caused you to get the drug-induced anxiety disorder in the first place. it is clearly not worth it. not at ALL!

[oggy]

Xanax makes me very chatty. I like it, it gives me confidence to chat to women and I feel so happy. I just don't use it all the time. I did binge on it when i first got it tho, but I do that with everything.

I take valium, k-pins and xanax. I like the k-pins and xanax the most tho. I used to get red faced when talking to girls but now I don't. Its a great drug and should be used as its ment to be used. It also means i don't have to drink as much when I go out witch is good.

[sands of time]

Well if it makes u feel any better i have been drug free, of all sorts, for 17 days now. i know that thats not really a long time but it is for me. as much as i like to get high, i agree with you, i am doing them for all the wrong reasons and in the wrong ways, thats why i have decided to make a change in my life. i realize the errors in my ways and am trying to act more responsibly.

Thats great to hear. We have all made mistakes, but not everyone can admit they're problematic behavoir. In the few years that I have worked for a large medical practice, the sickest thing I have seen was people stealing meds from seriously ill people. It's such a sad sight, and you know those sick people will not get they're meds because the doctors can't over prescribe meds without getting busted. I have even heard of people taking an animals pain meds after the pet gets surgery.

Shemmy makes a great point to. Though benzos are used to treat anxiety disorders, they can make someone more prone to these disorders after depending on them. At that point, the only cure is more benzos. It's an expensive thing, and anxiety disorders SUCK! They can turn you into a socially awkward person, making it very hard to get laid, among other things.

Oggy, yes benzos can make socializing a breeze. Their effects are quite similar to alcohol in many ways. Just remember about the dependance thing. If you are depending on them for these social encounters, it will make things worse in the future. I would recommend trying to meet woman on your own. Consider it practice for the future, becuase there will be a time when you have to do these things on your own.

I hate to be the nagging voice that no one listens to, but you always gotta weigh the positives against the negitives. It has done me alot of good in the world.

[Richard_smoker]

actually, it's funny that your name is 'sands of time' because weighing the costs/benefits ratio is one of the final stages of maturity in self-discovered enlightenment. (sorry, didn't mean to step on any buddist's shoes... just think of it as a different 'kind' of enlightenment!)

i mean, think about it... lack of concern for costs:benefits is what makes a rash, immature adolescent a rash, immature adolescent. it's why their death rates by accident are higher than any other age group and higher than any other cause.

when you're already accepting that drugs can not only be fun, but a useful companion to life's experience, then you're starting out one step behind on the cost:benefit understanding curve... which makes arriving there all the more meaningful and true. Someone who has never taken risks, never taken chances, and never risked theirr own lives to stupidity really have no right to lecture someone who has 'been there' on this subject.

yet another reason why teenagers and college students snub their noses at adults. because no one is willing to admit when they've 'been there themselves.' perhaps they're afraid it's a sign of weakness or that it will encourage young people to repeat the same mistakes they made. Even if it does, who gives a shit?? life is made to be lived. you only get one chance at it, and despite all the harm-reduction we can offer, there's simply no stopping someone with a death wish... sad but true.

keep on rockin, sands of time. you are, as they say, the one true inevitable force in all our lives. the sooner we accept you, the sooner we conquer fear and death itself. (not to confuse you with the ACTUAL sands of time!!)

[IHrtHalucingens]

Although i do agree with you sands of time, in my own defense, my mother gets prescribed 60 xanax every 60 days, she only takes 1/2 a pill a day and it works perfectly for her, so she always has a surplus. i would never deny her of the medication she needs, i have seen her w/o her medication and she has severe anxiety issues and panic attacks, i would hate to be the cause of that, besides the fact that im her son and cause her aingst no matter what i do as children often do. So i never took what she needed only what was left over. Regardless i have stopped everything and have no problem admitting that i was wrong. i am wrong alot and know it. But i have learned to accept it and learn from my mistakes like shemmy has said. i have no regrets about what i have done in my past, im not proud of alot of it, but w/o those experiences i would not be who i am today and i feel that i have made a change for the better in my life and even after only a couple weeks i feel very accomplished because i overcome my urge to use drugs everyday, and i am much happier with how i conduct myself. Thanks to all on your advice, even though it is not needed anymore.

[sands of time]

actually, it's funny that your name is 'sands of time' because weighing the costs/benefits ratio is one of the final stages of maturity in self-discovered enlightenment. (sorry, didn't mean to step on any buddist's shoes... just think of it as a different 'kind' of enlightenment!)

i mean, think about it... lack of concern for costs:benefits is what makes a rash, immature adolescent a rash, immature adolescent. it's why their death rates by accident are higher than any other age group and higher than any other cause.

when you're already accepting that drugs can not only be fun, but a useful companion to life's experience, then you're starting out one step behind on the cost:benefit understanding curve... which makes arriving there all the more meaningful and true. Someone who has never taken risks, never taken chances, and never risked theirr own lives to stupidity really have no right to lecture someone who has 'been there' on this subject.

yet another reason why teenagers and college students snub their noses at adults. because no one is willing to admit when they've 'been there themselves.' perhaps they're afraid it's a sign of weakness or that it will encourage young people to repeat the same mistakes they made. Even if it does, who gives a shit?? life is made to be lived. you only get one chance at it, and despite all the harm-reduction we can offer, there's simply no stopping someone with a death wish... sad but true.

keep on rockin, sands of time. you are, as they say, the one true inevitable force in all our lives. the sooner we accept you, the sooner we conquer fear and death itself. (not to confuse you with the ACTUAL sands of time!!)

Wow, thats deep lol. Thanks... I guess. I'm not sure if you were complementing my attitude towards life or what but that was deep man hehe.

[oggy]

Actually now I know I can be like this with the benzos it has made me better without them as well. So I don't feel I need them all the time just for a time when I feel I'm going to be nervous.

[calmascanbe]

In my experience with xanax the first day is the best . After that you'll just be chasing that high. Take a week off and it will come back like the first time. As to tolerance ,for me it comes fast and I use valium in between uses of xanax. I've chased that high before many times and finally realized that it can't be done. I would up the dosage 4 x 's and all I would experiance was a lot of memory loss and a waste of xanax ,plus I would stumble around the house not knowing what I intended to do.

[smithdogg1]

Swim is wondering, if you have a high tolerance to one Benzo, let’s say Ativan, then will you also have a high tolerance to other benzos such as Xanax and Valium? SWIM knows that Xanax is generally stronger than Ativan, but if you took equivalent doses, say 1mg of Ativan or .05 of Xanax it should be the same right? SWIM does not believe this is true though, he is most familiar with Ativan (has a script) and if he takes 10mg Valium, it feels much different/stronger than 1mg of Ativan (which is said to be the equivalent). Same with Xanax .05 feels much more noticeable and 1mg of Ativan.

So swim is wondering, is this because Xanax and Valium are just generally stronger to begin with even as so called equivalent does? Or is it because of swims tolerance to Ativan, but not to other benzos that he does not take nearly as frequently? So maybe a way to keep tolerance down, for swim anyway is to mix it up and not take the same benzo for too long.

[Jatelka]

Tolerance to benzodiazepines is thought to arise because of a combination of factors: Down-regulation of GABA receptors, reduced response to GABA agonists, and reduced density of GABA binding sites.

However there is some evidence that tolerance to the various effects of benzos occurs at different rates. Tolerance to hypnotic effects occurs rapidly, followed by tolerance to anticonvulsant effects, and finally tolerance to the anxiolytic effects.

Although all benzodiazepines cause tolerance by their effects on GABA the qualitive differences that SWIY is noticing may be related to degrees of tolerance to the different effects.

Alprazolam is said to (generally) have more anxiolytic effects whereas Lorazepam is said to have more of an hypnotic effect. So it may be that SWIY is at a stage where tolerance has built to hypnotic effects, but not the anxiolytic effects

Another issue to consider is the types of things in a drug that tend to cause reinforcing effects (ie: tend to make SWIY want to take them again). Fast-acting drugs (like Alprazolam and Diazepam) tend to be positively reinforcing, as do drugs with a short duration of effect. Lorazepam doesn't really fall into either of those categories.

[Grauthue]

Swim has built up a huge tolerance for oxazepam the last weeks.
it seems like they dont work anymore.
Swim took 15 pills pf 25mg today, and Swim was still nervous.
a question is, can for example 8 pills be more calming than 15? is there a point where you have taken too many and they dont work as they should?
another question is: can another benzodiazepine being used and not be so heavily tolerated? can i switch to another one, and take "normal" doses...?
and, i am starting a new school in two weeks. if i dont use any pills before this, how much will Swim´s tolerance have decreased? Swim will have to use benzos when Swim starts the school....
all answers are very much appreciated!!

[lulz]

Tolerance to the sedative and hypnotic effects of benzos will always occur after regular usage.

The anxiety-reducing effects though usually resist tolerance, unless the benzos are abused. There was a 20 year study done on the anxiolytic effects of xanax, and it found that no significant tolerance built up over time. I'm not sure if this only applies to xanax or not though.

[Jatelka]

^^^ Do you have a citation lulz?

[lulz]

I'm having some trouble locating the original piece of research Jakelta, but I found this reference to it in an article written by a doctor:


While dependency is a concern, when used for generational PNE the same dosage has been shown to be effective over long periods of time (a good long term study I have read was by Lessor et al at UCLA in which 20 year follow-up was done and the patients did not find that alprazolam lost effectiveness and that dosage tended to decrease slightly over time. The average patient was taking between 3 mg and 5 mg daily).
http://www.power-surge.com/educate/medication/xanax.htm

I believe this is the meaning of "PNE":


Polyneuronal Ectopy (PNE) - a generalized term for panic disorder (http://anxiety-panic.com/dictionary/en-dictp.htm#PanicDisorder) which is more inclusive of related neurological (http://anxiety-panic.com/dictionary/en-dictn.htm#Neurology) symptoms. PNE involves abnormal electrical activity found in virtually any part of the central (http://anxiety-panic.com/dictionary/en-dictc.htm#CentralNS) or peripheral (http://anxiety-panic.com/dictionary/en-dictp.htm#PeripheralNS) nervous system which can be a cause or result of acute anxiety.


http://anxiety-panic.com/dictionary/en-dictp.htm

[Big Fella]

SWIBF Took 10mg of Valium for the first time in ages yesturday, sublingually, he noticed a strong euphoric feeling that stayed with him for a few hours. SWIBF noticed that this is a one off experience as his tolerance builds very vert fast, consequences of years of abuse and a tolerance memory (He believes these exist) unless of course he forces 60mg+, which he feels is a waste.

SWIBF uses them for anexity for the latent rebound from an 18 month OTC opiate addiction, mild calm and no anxeity are the consistent effect.

This is a good thing as SWIBF is an ex addict of every substance there is (bar meth as that was about in the UK when he was using) So the pursuit of a buzz is not a healthy thing.

[mad_dog]

I have been taking Klonopin (4-6mg) and altram(2-3) everyday for about a year (on the adivce of my doctor). Compared to Xanax or diazepam (which I took on an almost daily basis for 4 years) they are fairly gentle drugs.

P.S

I am a school teacher and during the holidays I never need to take the drugs and ease of them over a few days. I just have cronic pain conditions that make it really important for me to get a good nights sleep . Next term I'll try it without them but I've said this before....

[rocksmokinmachine]

By 'I', I take it you mean my pet dog, uncle, friend or anything else that doesn't incriminate you. Please read the rules on self incrimination before posting.

[mad_dog]

By 'I', I take it you mean my pet dog, uncle, friend or anything else that doesn't incriminate you. Please read the rules on self incrimination before posting. I don't see how legally prescribed medication paid for by my BUPA Health Insurance could incriminate me in anyway. I take these drugs and others in accordance with a pyschiatrist's, urologist's and a pain management consultant's wishes. I don't take these drugs to get "high" and if indeed they are watching us I feel that I would have no case to answer regarding my consumption of my medication.

[rocksmokinmachine]

Yes, bearing in mind it is a controled substance and this forum is very strict on self incrimination. I don't think discussion of alcohol and tobacco consumption are allowed. The same applies for everything. Including benzodiazepines.

[lulz]

Yes, bearing in mind it is a controled substance and this forum is very strict on self incrimination. I don't think discussion of alcohol and tobacco consumption are allowed. The same applies for everything. Including benzodiazepines.

As long as a person is using the first person to describe legally prescribed drug consumption, there is no violation of the rules. It's not illegal to take drugs that are legally prescribed. "Legally" being the operative words. :)

[dirtyp]

If you develop a habit of using clonozapam or any other benzo. Then please don't stop taking them cold turkey. Quitting any benzo cold turkey can be life threatening. At the very least you can have some serious seizures. Benxo withdrawal can be worse then opiate withdrawal. You have been warned.

i once got cold turkey and got a seisure (epilepsie) so be care full, lower the dosage slowly i mean very slowly