Advise sought for amphetamine addicted husband with Schizophrenia

[DESPERATE WIFE]

hi To All:)

I Joined This Forum As I Find Myself In Rather A Desperate Situation And I Hope That This Will Help. I Stumbled Across It While Trying To Find Information That Could Help Me To Support My Partener Who Is A Schizophrenic Addicted To Speed.

Im A Mother To A 3 Month Old And A Wife To An Otherwise Wonderful Man Whos Addiction Is Taking Away Any Future We Have. He Knows He Has A Major Problem But Cant Seem To Get Through More Than 5 Days Straight. Just Before Xmas 06, He Began To Smoke Speed(before He Took It Orally) And This Has Been Hes Greatest Downfall, Now He Cant Control It And In The Last Few Months Has Completely Emptied Our Bank Accounts.

I Feel So Torn And Depressed Since The Man I Love Is Ruining Both Himself And The Future Of Our Family, I Dont Want For Our Baby To Know Her Dad Through What She Sees In Old Photos And I Dont Want To See Him Die, Which Is What Is Happening Slowly. I Have Always Been There To Support Him And Help Him Though As Much As I Can, And I Always Will Be, But It Has Come To The Point Where I Need Help To Support Him. What Can I Do???

He Has Been Through Many Attempts To Stop But Cant. Now He Is Trying Again And I Need To Know How To Try And Stop The Withdrawal Symptoms.

cold Sweats
Cant Sleep
Aggitation
Agressiveness
Depression, Etc
my Partener Is Also Schizophrenic Which Is Another Set Back, He Hears Voices And Gets Anxiety Everyday And He Says Thats The Reason For His Drug Taking, That When He Is High, He Is Calm And "normal". He Is On Psychotic Medication Twice A Day, So I Was Hoping To Stumble Across Some Natural Therapy Or Something That Will Not Interfere As Much With His Medication. Any Suggestions Would Be Much Appreciated.

I Have Given Him A Month For This Attempt, After That If He Starts Using Again And Doesnt Seek A Rehab Clinic Or The Like, I Feel I Wont Be Able To Take It Anymore And Will Take My Daughter Away From Him For Awhile And Hopefully He Will Come To His Senses And Quit For Good, It Seems To Be My Only Answer Right Now. Do You Think Its Right??? I Just Need Him Better And I Need To Know How To Achieve This.

Has Anyone Known Someone Or Has Been Through A Simular Experience And Can Help In Anyway???? I Am Desperate!!!!!

Any Suggestions Would Be Much Aprreciated As I Have Noone I Can Talk To.... Please Help!

[Santa]

Are you sure he is actually using speed? Swim has never heard of people smoking speed (crack yes, but that's a different matter). This Swim has used speed for several years - snorting it and using it intravenuously -when she was still young :-) but she quit using it without any withdrawalsymptoms. (Any worth mentioning anyway). Swim felt far less agitated without then ON speed.
You say that ''when he is high, he is calm and normal". This sounds more like an opiod-addiction to me, speed will get you in a very active state to say the least... not calm and normal! Adding to this your husbands withdrawalsymptoms (cold sweats, can't sleep, aggitation, depression) I am wondering whether he's really using speed or whether he is on something else.
Furthermore, in my opinion, speed is about the LAST thing you should use when you are suffering from schizophrenia/anxiety/hearing voices. Speed will only make these symptoms worse!
Anyway, every person has different reactions to different drugs so obviously Swim can't tell for sure what he is using but if it IS speed he should be able to get off it if he really wants to. So that would be the good news.
However, maybe he should think about some medical help, considering his schizophrenia etc. A good docter will probably get him on the right medication that will make him feel 'normal' so that his craving for drugs will probably fade away. Swim knew someone who had a problem with hearing voices/anxiety/paranoia and he was helped a lot with the right medication and managed to get totally clean within a year.
Good luck to you! pm me if you have any more questions.

[Nagognog2]

Excuse me here, but the answer is contained in your posting: "Im A Mother To A 3 Month Old And A Wife To An Otherwise Wonderful Man Whos Addiction Is Taking Away Any Future We Have. "

You have a larger responsibility to the child than to babysitting your troubled husband. That must be the first priority. Give daddy his walking papers and apply for state assistance if needed. Australia has decent services for parents in trouble, and you certainly do qualify. Get in touch with your child-welfare people, and an attorney. If any more of the property is in joint custody, have the attorney prevent "Speedy" from selling it. If you are in fear of his reaction - go to Court and place a restraining order on him. Your child can't defend itself and is dependent on you to look after his/her welfare. Now stop twiddling your thumbs and take the needed action to help the child.

Many times a person will not do something to get help until they hit rock-bottom. All you can do is hope this serves as a wake-up call for "Speedy" to get some help. You cannot help him by standing by him as he destroys his life and that of his child and wife. In counciling circles what you have been doing is refered to as "enabling" him. It serves to prolong the inability for the person to make a rational decision and get the help they, and they alone, can go find.

This is not a situation for anger. Or for tears. This is a situation that requires action to be taken. I hope you do so for the child - if not for yourself as well.

[old hippie 56]

Must take care of the child, your husband should pull out of this. Old swim had his troubles with speed, and everything you have read here is true. Get help for you and your baby. Don't give him no month either. The sooner you get help, the sooner he gets help.

[augentier]

Are you sure he is actually using speed? Swim has never heard of people smoking speed (crack yes, but that's a different matter)..

Yes,one can smoke speed.

[Pinkavvy]

I would have to suggest, with his mental state in mind, and of course thinking of your child... that you get your husband institutionalized temperarily. It's called a 302 order and you can do it tomorow.

Meth is not physically addictive. Meaning, you aren't going to have PHYSICAL withdrawl problems; just mental and social ones.

But with his medical problem, having schizophrenia, things could get very difficult. Please do him a favor, and your child a favor, and get your husband insituionalized temperarily until his medication ir properly adjusted and his use of meth is gone forever.

[Nagognog2]

Is a 302 an Australian legal code, Pink? She's an Aussie. Regardless - if such can be arranged it would be a good method. And do be aware that you have the most power in this situation and hold all the cards: You are a mother with a baby.

[stoneinfocus]

Could be a phase, ususally this tapers off within the longer use, becaus emeth wears off automatically, and he wonßt die of it, event htough it might look like it sometimes, donßt worry, alcohol is much worse to body and mind and not so obvious in a seriuos alcoholic.

If he is "shizophrenic" I highly doubt that meth or speed would do him good, so maybe his prescribed medication is bullshit, which wouldn´t take me any wonder with the witch-doctor-mengele diagnosis psychiatry, if he take sit every 45 day, that´s ok, if he takes not too much and if it doesn´t cost that much money.... I´ve seen a pair with a child that got along very well while on speed.

that´s now just my opinion... think about it befor exaggerating this for no reason -ok, money is one, but maybe therefor can a remedy found? ie-20$ for speed a week should suffice to taper it down adn keep it aa tbay and is a reasonable and not so dangerous habit and not so expensive, also.

[Spare Chaynge]

I do not agree with ordering a 302 being a schizo this would make him even more out of wack.

[fnord]

meth in general can make people act like schitzos,here voices see things,extream paranoia etc etc swim use to smash his phone/smoke detectors/etc with a hamer once a week looking for bugs...meth + schitzophreneia dont mix people that are otherwise normal are fucking insane after a week meth binge.pack up your stuff and go stay with a friend or look in on to some kind of state asistance.meth is a very unpredictable drug.hope evrything works out for you.

[fpShooter]

personally this swim has only used speed a few times, (it's just not swims drug), but he does know several people who do use it. swim lives in the Netherlands and there it's as cheep as buying cigarettes, but i guess it's in your country different.
i also have never heart of smoking speed, (but you could smoke everything, as long as you put fire to it). so swim also thinks it is a bit strange. the more so because he gets calm and normal when he uses it. it's always the other way around. and indeed can someone get very easily voices in his head, and after that he will start seeing things when he uses to much to long.

my answer to your question is as simple as as terrible, and that is that you can't do anything that would really help. best is that when he really wants to stop that he goes to come clinic and stays there at least several months.

the biggest question is, does he really wants to stop, or does he only say it because he knows you expect that from him. when a addict doesn't want to stop then nothing can help stopping him. this doesn't mean that he really doesn't want to stop, because a life with an addiction is never better as a normal life. it's more the question of can he really go through it of stopping. the symptoms of stopping will not be that hard with speed, it's more the mental state of the person, especially after a few days you want to use it, just ones more...

i really hope you will find you're happiness together, but you will not find it other then that he goes to a clinic. because stopping on his own doesn't work for him, that he did prove already.

wish you all the luck of the world ,

[snapper]

Give him an ultimatum and if he does not get it together, leave. If he is so selfishly absorbed in his habit that he is neglecting his family and child, he will take you down with him. Addicts often need to hit rock bottom before they finally stop, and some never do. THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN DO TO CONTROL HIS PROBLEM, AND FACILITATING IT BY STAYING WITH HIM AND LETTING HIM SPEND THE RESOURCES YOUR FAMILY NEEDS TO GET BY WILL ONLY ALLOW THE PROBLEM TO GET WORSE.
Demand that he get treatment or get out. You will be far better off away from him, and he will be far more likely to get himself together when faced with being alone. If he doesn't, he has only himself to blame. For the sake of your child, do not let your emotions get in the way of doing the right thing. He needs to want to stop, and clearly he does not, not to mention how much he has probably used that you do not even know about. Junkies are really sneaky..
Good luck, I have all the sympathy in the world for your situation.
BTW, meth makes normal people psychotic, and given his mental instability, he could also become a very volatile and dangerous person. He is not the man you married when behaving that way, so do not assume that he will behave like he was before the drugs.

[Micklemouse]

Can we stop using the term "schizo" please? Have a bit of compassion for fecks sake! Also, to pass this off as "a phase" is kind of missing the point, not to mention demeaning & potentially dangerous. This woman is trying to keep her family together whilst dealing with a man who she loves with a clinical diagnosis of schizophrenia & a problem with a drug that threatens not only to split her family up, but also clouds the diagnosis & could make any symptoms he is suffering a lot worse. Jeez, I despair sometimes! Also, we are dealing with a crisis situation here, so differential diagnosis by random posters with little knowledge of what they are talking about, biased agendas, & with nothing positive to add is not helpful.

Bitch slap over, on to the question. First off, a few positives -

He Has Been Through Many Attempts To Stop But Cant. Now He Is Trying Again This is fantastic news. Many addicts, whatever their drug of choice, try, fail & try again, often repeating this cycle several times before getting totally clean. Frustrating, but he recognises that he has to, & wants to, change.

He Hears Voices And Gets Anxiety Everyday And He Says Thats The Reason For His Drug Taking, That When He Is High, He Is Calm And "normal". He Is On Psychotic Medication Twice A Day,Although not ideal, this is also in some ways a positive, & something that could work in his favour. He recognises the reason for his drug use, & the reasons given are common & valid ones. Plus, he is taking his meds - this could, along with your support be making the difference between him recovering & flying off completely. Add the fact that he appears to have a lot of insight into his situation & the impact it is having, & you're on the way to a winner.

Now, questions & suggestions.

Does your husband have a psychiatrist, & if so does he have a good relationship with them? If the answer is yes to at least one of the above then the first thing I suggest is contacting them urgently & arranging a meeting. Your husband needs to be entirely honest about everything that has been happening before & after his use got out of control at this meeting. My guess is that his medication hasn't been working as well as it could for a while now, & needs reviewing. Alternatively it may have been working too well, & his speed use was initially to compensate for feeling over sedated as well as any lack in self-confidence that he may have suffered because of his diagnosis & illness. Many people living with psychotic conditions self-medicate, & speed is a common choice - in the short term it is a marvellous antidepressant, giving confidence & energy, & even combatting some of the negative symptoms of psychosis (lethargy, paranoia, even the voices to an extent). However, as you're aware this is only in the short term, & after the dose has worn off the paranoia & voices are going to come back, potentially even stronger, leading to increased self-medication.

Unfortunately, to get a completely accurate picture of what is going on, he may well need a hospital or rehab admission - without complete abstinence it is not possible to tell if he does indeed have schizophrenia or whether he is actually a long term speed user with a long standing psychotic reaction (Amfetamine psychosis very closely resembles 'true' psychosis, although at the moment this is not entirely relevant - you're in crisis, & that is what needs dealing with; as the 2 are so similar in both presentation & treatment a full & accurate diagnosis can wait!), never mind whether or not his current medication regime is cutting it so far as controlling his symptoms goes. If your husband will consent to that himself, then fantastic; if not then it is entirely possible that you can both get through this crisis at home, with a bit of extra help. It does not sound as if he is unwell enough from what you say to warrant a compulsory admission at this point though, although I could be wrong & a psychiatrist could think differently. He does need reviewing by a professional though.

Bottom line, you both need help at this point, so do not be afraid (or too proud!) to ask for it. Although it is probably (certainly!) a very lonely time, remember that many people before you have been in similar positions & have got through it. Look into carers support groups in your area - you need looking after as much as your husband & child at this point, & certainly in the future.

As for using Alternative Therapies at this point I would be very wary of anything other than good diet, plenty of water & maybe a decent Vitamin B complex supplement, Vitamin C & Vitamin E (preferably with oil to aid absorbtion), at least until you have sought medical advice.

As for bailing out, tough one. At the end of the day you have to weigh up you & your childs safety & emotional well-being. The incidence of physical violence in people with schizophrenia is actually very low - violence to property is more likely. The use of speed may heighten this slightly, but other than agitation no mention of violence is made in the original post. Dealing with psychosis can haowever be very draining, as can dealing with addiction - dealing with both together can be a complete nightmare that would test the patience of a saint! The ultimatum has already been made, & fair enough if this a longstanding cycle. However it is early days in this round, so take things day by day. It may well be useful for you & your husband to get out of town for a while - is there an understanding relative or friend you can stay with for a couple of weeks away from any source of speed? If this is done though, please make sure that you have contact details for local psychiatric services, just in case



A few links that may help

http://www.mifa.org.au/members.htm - The Mental Illness Foundation Of Australia. Not all the links on the pages that the map links to work unfortunately (the Northern Territories, Canberra, SA & WA organistion links don't appear to be valid, but hopefully the phone numbers still work!)

SANE Australia - Home (http://www.sane.org/)

Best of luck!

[fnord]

look into dual diagnosis groups,its a group for people that have drug problems + a mental disorder.

[Micklemouse]

look into dual diagnosis groups,its a group for people that have drug problems + a mental disorder.

Damn! Why didn't I think of that? Sound advice!

[Jatelka]

As a mother and a wife you have to take care of your child and yourself before your husband, hard though that may seem. If you do not look after yourself, then you won't be able to look after him.

There are many support groups out there, and many focusing on women with domestic difficulties related to drug use (their own or partners). If you have a family doctor then they may be a good first port of call. They can put you in touch with the support that YOU need. Whether that is mental health professionals for your husband, social/financial/counselling support for you and your child, or just a place of refuge for you, they will know what is available locally.

You say that one of the effects of withdrawal is agression? If he has been physically violent to you or your child then you NEED TO GET OUT NOW.

[dogzz]

Swim was a meth user for over 30 years, been thru a lot, what swim hasn't swim has seen. Nagagnog was right. Your answer was in your being a mother. Trust Swim, there is not one thing you can do to directly make him stop. Even if treatment was forced on him, if he is not ready, he'll be right back where he was in no time after leaving treatment. You can not believe a thing he says, granted , there is a chance it is the truth.....but 99% of the time, whatever he says will be to protect his use. You do not have the time to wait for him to decide to try quitting. You have a child to think of, you have yourself to think of, because your child deserves at least one parent don't you think? Schizophrenia is very common amongst meth users, and there is no telling how far he will take it. Ya never know.....it is quite possible you and your child moving on will be the "bottom" he hits in order to wake up and do something about his addiction and life. Waiting for it to happen is a luxury a child can not afford.....they grow up so fast....let kids have a few happy memories. No sense in getting into any type of arguement with him either, just tell him the why's and whats of your leaving.....and leave...he is a grown man, and father,... lets be optimistic...he'll see what his use has left him with ( nothing) and do something about it.

[DESPERATE WIFE]

My Partener Is Actually Schizophrenic, Has Been For 12 Yrs Or There About And I Must Say You Have Made The Most Sense To Me. There Is No Physical Violence At All, And I Never Even Feel Threatened. You Have Made Me Realise One Important Thing I Didnt Think Of And That Is Since His Review Of His Schitzophrenic Meds, His Drug Use Has Spiralled Out Of Control. His New Meds Arent As Effective As The Old Ones And We See A Psychiatrist Every Month. Im Not So Stupid As To Stay In An Abusive Relationship And Would Never Subject My Child To One Either, My Threat Of Leaving Was Only To Get Through To Him, And As I Am The Only One Who He Has To Support Him, He Has Recognized My Point. I Dont Think That Posters Are Aware Of The Realities Of True Schizophrenia, Its An Illness That Effects His Mind Everyday- Drugs Or No Drugs, He Lives With Voices Constantly, He Suffers Anxiety And Is Very Aware He Is Sick, Trying To Be "normal" And Function In Everyday Life. He Holds A Job Which That Alone Is A Bonus As Most People With The Illness Cant And Are Forced To Live On Centrelink Benefits. It Is A Disability That Will Never Go Away. After My Extensive Research On Both Drug Addiction And The Illness, I Subjected Him To The Harsh Realities Of Both, What It Doing To Him And How It Effects Him Physically And Mentally. I Got Through To Him, His Antipsychotic Medication Causes All Kinds Of Damage To His Body And Is Limiting His Life Span Anyway, By Up To 30 Yrs. The Drugs Basically Speed It Up (no Pun Intended). After An All Night Conversation Which Ended Up Very Emotional, We Smashed The Pipe, And Threw Away The Speed He Had. I Knew He Is A Loving And Reasonable Person And By Making Him Have To Face The Facts, He Couldnt Ignore Them. It Has Been 3 Days Now, Although Still Early, I Know This Is It And He Has Taken 2 Weeks From Work To Do This. And Next We Will Deal With His Meds And Try New Alternatives To Control His Illness As Best We Can, One Day At A Time. Its Important To Remember That Tomorrow Is A New Day.

My Advice Is To Never Judge And Never Underestimate True Love, Because As My Partener Hit Rock Bottom, I Didnt Run, I Was There To Pull Him Up, To Support Him. Marrage Is Til Death Do Us Part, For Better Or Worse, And My Belief In That Along With My Belief In His True Person Is What Has Made Him Realise Just How Much He Stands To Lose. And He Knows I Would Never Make Threats If I Didnt Mean Them. It Pays Not To Yell And Scream But To Be Brutally Honest. What Doesnt Kill Us Can Make Us Stronger, And Soon All Of What We Have Been Through Will Bring Our Relationship To New Hieghts And We Both Will Be Here For Our Child.

Just Because Someone Is On Drugs, Doesnt Mean They Are Beyond Reason, It Just Depends How The Person Supporting Them Goes About Making Them Realise The Pros And Cons Of What They Are Doing. Timing And Patience Has Alot To Do With Getting The Result You What And Need.

[stoneinfocus]

iof he was shizophrenic one line would make him go nuts immediately, I would consider throwing the "diagnosis" over board and change it to "hyperactive", resp. ADHD or whatever comes Dr Mengele Pfeizer-Winthorp to mind... he coukld get hisd addreall and be calm with prescription... otherwise,
I would cionsider, if he really is interfering in too many kind of ways with the prospective child´s education and family-live to leave him anyway....

swim was in a family with an fascist alcoholic as a faher and a neurotic mum, which didn´t care and made things worse, so just leaving would be best imho, if it´s getting to this point..... comnsdidering aggression, violent behaviour out of the nothing, blaming kids and everyone else for his misery and such things..., if itßs not that bad... well, hard to say, it´s your live, your man, your love, your decision, you´ll have to take on cue.

[Micklemouse]

iof he was shizophrenic one line would make him go nuts immediately, I would consider throwing the "diagnosis" over board and change it to "hyperactive", resp. ADHD or whatever comes Dr Mengele Pfeizer-Winthorp to mind... he coukld get hisd addreall and be calm with prescription... otherwise,
I would cionsider, if he really is interfering in too many kind of ways with the prospective child´s education and family-live to leave him anyway....

swim was in a family with an fascist alcoholic as a faher and a neurotic mum, which didn´t care and made things worse, so just leaving would be best imho, if it´s getting to this point..... comnsdidering aggression, violent behaviour out of the nothing, blaming kids and everyone else for his misery and such things..., if itßs not that bad... well, hard to say, it´s your live, your man, your love, your decision, you´ll have to take on cue.

It's a good job SWiY're not a psychiatrist then, eh? As I said, many people with schizophrenia self-medicate with speed, often successfully for some time before "going nuts" as you so eloquently put it. To overthrow a 12 year diagnosis, & start someone who displays classic symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia on a stimulant regime has to be one of the most unhelpful & frankly daft suggestion that could be made.

Did you even read DW's reply? The bit where she says her husband is not, & never has been, violent? The bit where she describes classic symptoms of schizophrenia? The bit where she clarifies the longstanding diagnosis, which predates any problematic drug use? The bit where she describes her husband having a job? At no point did DW say her husband was violent - she listed some common potential aspects of amfetamine withdrawal, amongst which was "Aggressiveness", which people have jumped on as meaning "violent".

Yes, some psychiatrists get it wrong. Some are only in it for the money. Many however get it right, save lives & help improve the quality of those lives, keep families together, honestly care about their patients & what happens to them. Psychiatry is a new & by it's nature inexact science. To dismiss all psychiatrists as fascist experimenters is as dangerous & wrong as saying that all schizophrenics are violent - a person with schizophrenia is more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator, unless that violence is directed at themselves (i.e. self-harm, suicide).

However, this is not the place for agendas, & I find both your posts not only inappropriate, but actually quite offensive. There is no comparison between SWiY experience & this woman's - DW's husband has insight, is willing to change, has a wife who is not prepared to sit back & watch her family descend into complete dysfunctionality or split up unnecessarily.

[Alicia]

Yes, some psychiatrists get it wrong. Some are only in it for the money. Many however get it right, save lives & help improve the quality of those lives, keep families together, honestly care about their patients & what happens to them. Psychiatry is a new & by it's nature inexact science. To dismiss all psychiatrists as fascist experimenters is as dangerous & wrong as saying that all schizophrenics are violent - a person with schizophrenia is more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator, unless that violence is directed at themselves (i.e. self-harm, suicide).



So true in so many ways. Swia gets sick of it when people say all people with schizophrenia are violent it depends on the individual.

Swia has been tempted to add her thoughts to this thread as she knew the topic would be touched on sooner or later regarding mental section. Mickle beat me too it.

[stoneinfocus]

I was just refering to the worst case happening, and if he really is a good lovong and mild man, besides of having his own hell of living with a mental problem, than it´s ok, to get help and seek advise.

The odds for psychiatry are against it, the only thing that really works is psychological warfare, considering the failures of the scientifically backed up diagnosis of rtaditional medicine, alone this one isn´t really somethign to consider dealing with, if you can substitute it for bungee-jumping or doing appropiate drugs, so when it comes to pasychjiatry, I have yet to see, that they did help anyone, besides of disrtacting the school medicine from proper physical diagnosis and incancerating innocent.

In my experience, any progress made by patients in a facility were totally devoid of any therapy applied and eventual changes just the normal course of their sickness, mood, lives, although the medical personal, strangely for no reason at all. was dreaming that their therapy helped anyone ...

In my book psychiatry is neither a science, not anythign that thjelps anyone, in fact it should be completely abandoned for proper research in the field of traditional medicine and care taking for the poeple, because they will never get to the point, where it will have more benfit than doing harm.

So I think it was important, that one hears this opinion too, before trying to too hysterically make any decision.

[Nagognog2]

This thread is NOT about you, co-incidence. No one asked you about your situation. Back off.

[Micklemouse]

Apologies for jumping down SWiY throat Co-incidence. I don't want to negate SWiY experiences (I've just read a post of yours that would go a long way to explain your views on the subject), & they are experiences shared by many around the world. However you must understand for just as many the opposite is true - psychiatric medication (dirty, random, often over or mis-prescribed stuff that it is!) has saved many lives, & improved the quality of life of countless others who would otherwise be living lives governed by some of the most disabling & misunderstood (by society at large) diseases known. In the last 100 years we have gone from locking the mentally ill away & throwing away the key, to a situation where people who would a century ago would have been poked with sticks for sixpence hold down jobs, have successful careers, have full lives & play a full part in their communities. To say that psychiatry has never helped anyone denies these peoples experiences entirely - without psychiatry, & especially pharmaco-psychiatry these people would not have had the opportunity to do anything other than dribble in a corner, rant in the street, & would be derided & shunned even more than the mentally ill are today. In an ideal world other therapies would be used as well, & this is slowly beginning to happen - psychotherapy, cbt, psychology are all being used with great outcomes both in the community & in hospitals. However for many the reality of the situation is that without medication at some point in their illness (& sometimes for the rest of their life) therapy becomes impossible.

Remember that your experience is only one experience (& from what I have read it was not a good one). One bad experience does not mean that you are in a position to judge someone elses experiences. One bad diagnosis does not mean that all diagnoses are wrong.

As I stated earlier, this is a crisis thread. Can we try to avoid derailing it any more than we already have?

[snapper]

SWIM agrees with Micklemouse entirely. Psychiatry has it's share of quacks, but has indeed saved many lives and allowed people to function. Many bipolars who would otherwise have gone to jail, harmed themselves or harmed others have been well controlled with drugs; SWIM knows of a few. Same for schizophrenics, the clinically depressed and so many other damaging to deadly conditions. Sure psychiatric medicine is very shotgun, but at least it does help some people live their lives. It is wrong to make general statements based on personal experiences, particularly when it might discourage someone from seeking help that may be beneficial for them.

[manda]

You've obviously gotten plently of advice on this subject already, but honey, he will be an asshole until he is off of it. But believe me I understand you wanting to help him, cause you got kids. You can pm me anytime. -Manda

[skib1]

SWIM has a good friend that is cert. Schiz, and as described speed was fine at first but soon the voices had him holding weapons and staring out windows at shadows for hours and hours. SWIM found your decision a good one, him seeing many friends in the same boat (excluding this particular mental illness) where their wife and child left them as a last wake up call and I have never seen it work, they can so much more easily make upi excuses without out constant reality checks that no one is now there to give them. But a gambler or a businessman would have to play the odds which is the latter, but I am very happy, if in fact things go as you anticipate.

Swim has same smoking addiction for a number of years now, he knows the time grows short that he can maintain the false exterior of success and normalcy while the interior is rotted hollow. But quitting meth is the easiest thing to do, ask swim, he's done it at leats like 25 times in the past 10 years.

No seriously what SWIM have found through those 25 times is depending on what was current consumption and length of frequent consumption you need 5-10 days of nothing but sleep and food and drinks.
Once hibernation is over bath....peeeeeyouuu
Though one will greatly desire nothing but sleep (swim has fallen asleep weeks into recovery standing, driving, in meetings, at restaraunts and even bikeriding) after a week or two its as good as it gets (as far as how good sleep will make you feel once its over) and the only thing that returns you to feeling normal is staying busy with physical work and exercise, after 1 month of minumum, even cardio only exercise on a regular basis and 8 hrs of sleep a night (SWIm know he will want 12-14-16 but this just negates the process) he will feel like a new man, excluding the other issue and drugs which SWIM is in no position to comment on knowing nothing about their affect and or symptoms.

Anyway wish you the best, applaud your decision of action, dread the likely outcome regardless of heart, love, or faith. Meth is all the bad they say about it, and worse, yet suprisingly yummy swim thought....

Oh and if you can't smoke it swim can sure stay up a long time without properly installed stimulants, but he can't and you can.

[Forum Moron]

Have you considered meditation? Meditation can be a very powerful thing, and if you find a good person to guide you though a meditation process, it can have a very powerful effect on the mind. I'm not an expert on schizophrenia but personally, i belive it could have benifits for both the drug probelm and it may even help to reduce some of the scizophrenic problems as well. Meditation can clear the mind, and soul, and done properly and maintained over time, can even have a euphoric effect.

The power your mind has is incredable, even the power of your own words. One thing to do is catch yourself, and your husband when saying things like "im trying to quit this" or even what you said "he's trying to quit, but he just cant". Try is a very very weak word. Silly as it seems, but to quote a wise man many of us know, "Do or not do, there is no try." - Mr. Yoda When using the word try, you are opening your subconsicous door to failure already and you can quite easily open that door again when it comes to substance abuse... Try implys both success AND failure.

One thing swim has been doing since he has been off cocaine, is on the wall he has written one word, barely legible in pencil. DONE. That is a pretty strong word for swim, implying completeness, and finality. So, every day swim pencils over that word, making it darker and reaffirming the fact that swim is DONE with his cocaine abuse. It may sound a bit like nonsence, but it has worked better than any advice given to swim in the past.

Your husband can quit. Anybody can quit any drug. Anybody can achive what they put their mind to, with mental focus, and the love that the two of you obvously share, NOTHING can stop the two of you to whatever goals you want to achive. I have faith, and I am sure every other member of this forum does as well.