Lorazepam a little different from the other benzos

[Orchid_Suspiria]

SWIM after some experimenting with lorazepam has noticed it does not effect him like other benzos do.He could call it the psychedellic benzo.After taking three one mg one he feels the normal benzo sedation but with an added kick.Confused thoughts,minor visiuals mainly shadowy ones such as shadow snakes moving across vision.Also hearing sinister and primal voices in his friends fishtank bubbles.Has anyone else had this kind of experiece from this substance?SWIM gets very confused and nods in and out of reallity.Sometimes he will loose track of where he is even.Odd drug,one of the first ones swim used back in highschool.Perhaps the reason its so calming and so placid yet it has a dark side is because it is meant to calm people by showing them their worst fears and a frightened side of the mind yet presents them with a placcid and mellow form of recreation for the mind all at the sametime,or maybe SWIM is the only person that reacts to them in this matter.

[psilocybin]

weird you should say that, swim has just been prescribed some.. and while should really be bein more responsible has had a few drinks and is actualy finding a slight blurred vision effect after 1mg

[assionyx]

i found that i would nod out, as well.

i would be chilling out in my room, and look over to see a friend on my bed reading a magazine, and almost jump out of my skin because i had totally forgotten she was even over.

i would be on the bus and "wake up"... almost SCREAM because i had no idea i was even on a bus, i'd see the person next to me and jump... then realize i had no idea where i was going

* * * * *

i'm not taking it anymore, well... rarely. i now need 3-4mg to achieve the same result 0.5 did... went from needing it about once a week to about 5 times a day (for anxiety)... my body desensitized to it quickly and i also became addicted on and off.

the withdrawl effects of this drug are fucking insane.
the funny thing is, my psychiatrist put me on a low dose because it's "very addictive" yet she never even noticed when i started abusing it, "lost a bottle", or were pretty much eating them like candy.

[assionyx]

SWIM is obviously used to writing freely about this subject and realizes her self-incrimination now.

SWIM doesn't understand why she can't edit posts?

[Psych0naut]

SWIM is obviously used to writing freely about this subject and realizes her self-incrimination now.

SWIM doesn't understand why she can't edit posts?Only silver member and higher, and donating members can edit their posts.

[testodan]

SWIM has heard from lorazepam that is the most addictive cause it has chemically something opioid-related..codeine?This was heard even from junkies BTW.(<

[Micklemouse]

Just goes to show that you can't trust a junkie when it comes to accurate information. Lorazepam has no active metabolites (http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/Datasheet/l/Lorzemtab.htm), let alone anything that relates to codeine, & I can find no evidence for activity on any of the opioid receptors (if anyone else can please post it!), although one study has found that the barbiturate secobarbital and the benzodiazepine receptor agonist lorazepam engendered partial pentazocine-appropriate responding ... (Bickel et al., 1989 which may account for the myth. In another study (Greenwald & Stitzer, 1998, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10933337&dopt=Abstract) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10933337&dopt=Abstract) Volunteers reported dysphoria, confusion and sedation after butorphanol, subjective effects that overlapped with those of lorazepam, whereas morphine produced euphoria and stimulation..

At best there may be an overlap of effects between some opioid/ates & some benzo's, but nothing more. It's addictiveness is purely due to the fact that it is a benzodiazepine.

[Alicia]

Plus benzo's effect the gaba receptors of the brain where as opiates primary effect the bodies endorphins.

[testodan]

Just goes to show that you can't trust a junkie when it comes to accurate information. Lorazepam has no active metabolites (http://www.medsafe.govt.nz/Profs/Datasheet/l/Lorzemtab.htm), let alone anything that relates to codeine, & I can find no evidence for activity on any of the opioid receptors (if anyone else can please post it!), although one study has found that which may account for the myth. In another study (Greenwald & Stitzer, 1998, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10933337&dopt=Abstract) (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10933337&dopt=Abstract) .

At best there may be an overlap of effects between some opioid/ates & some benzo's, but nothing more. It's addictiveness is purely due to the fact that it is a benzodiazepine.Obviously noone can trust a junky for accurate information,just to consider that these guys find that drug so addictive among their general adddiction and tolerance.
BTW That's why I am here and not on streets searching for information/knowledge:cool:

[Alicia]

Obviously noone can trust a junky for accurate information,just to consider that these guys find that drug so addictive among their general adddiction and tolerance.


No i guess not because all junkies are inherently wrong and dont know anything other then addiction. They must just sit on the street with no intelligence at all. aprt from urge to steal and eat..

what would a junky know..

[Micklemouse]

No i guess not because all junkies are inherently wrong and dont know anything other then addiction. They must just sit on the street with no intelligence at all. aprt from urge to steal and eat..

what would a junky know..

Depends on the junkie of course! Apologies for generalising based on experience. But we digress...

[Laudaphun]

SWIM has definitely found lorazepam to be a little different than other benzos. SWIM realizes that it is short-acting and thinks it should be more recreational, however SWIM has never really responded that well to it. SWIM hasn't aquired any in a few years however, he is curious about the possibility of subligual administration of this drug in that he's heard a lot of positive information about this.

SWIM thinks its just his body chemistry, but he's always preferred most other benzos over lorazepam. It could also be the result of SWIM having extensive exposure to xanax before ever trying any other benzo as well.

[powerkoala]

Really interesting experiences. Does nothing to me, up to 3 mg, makes me feel drowsy.

[testodan]

Ok guys check this out;


What makes lorazepam different from other benzodiazepines?

In a recent issue of The Journal of Physiology, Di Lazzaro et al. (2005) reported that two benzodiazepines (BZs), lorazepam (2.5 mg p.o.) and diazepam (20 mg p.o.), had dissociated short latency afferent inhibition (SAI) effects, the former having reduced, while the latter, increased SAI. We would like to draw attention to the fact that this adds one more piece of mportant evidence to the already well-established atypical nature of lorazepam effects (see Pomp´eia et al. 2003a)
for a reason that the authors may not have fully appreciated in their paper. We have previously compiled reports that
point to the atypical effects of lorazepam in contrast to that of other BZs (Pomp´eia et al. 2003a), which include both behavioural and physiological evidence. In terms of behavioural measures, lorazepam has an atypical profile in animal discrimination studies (see Ator & Griffiths, 1997; Ator & Kautz, 2000), as well as in investigations into human cognition.

Contrary to what Di Lazzaro et al. seem to claim, diazepam does not have only ‘minimal effects on memory’. Diazepam, as all
BZs, leads to considerable deficits in a subtype of memory named episodic memory (Curran, 2000). In contrast to
lorazepam, however, no other BZ, including diazepam, has been found to consistently impair another type of memory, repetition priming (for an exception see Vidailhet et al. 1994). Lorazepam also impairs visual perception in an atypical
manner (see Pomp´eia et al. 2003a; and more recent publications Giersch & Herzog, 2004; Lorenceau et al. 2005), although diazepam has also been found to lead to larger visual effects than lorazepam (Boucart et al. 2000). Ingestion of acute doses of lorazepam have also been shown to result in: (a) less EEG fast activity as measured by dynamic brain mapping in relation to diazepam although lorazepam led to more pronounced side-effects (Itil et al. 1989); (b) atypical disruption of visual event-related potentials (ERPs) in comparison to flunitrazepam, a drug with comparable BZ receptor affinity, even when the doses of both drugs were equated following strict criteria (Pomp´eia et al. 2003b); and (c) reduced SAI contrary to diazepam, which increased it (Di Lazzaro et al. 2005).

It must be born in mind that most of the above-mentioned studies did not follow specific methodologies for selecting equipotent doses of lorazepam and the BZ with which it was being compared. Qualitatively different effects may be obtained by varying the dose of the same drug and may reflect test difficulty or sensitivity rather than qualitative differences
between drug effects (Duka et al. 1996).

A partial solution to this problem is to obtain a double-dissociation (i.e. each drug having larger effects in different tests; see Pomp´eia et al. 2003b) or to show opposite effects between drugs such as importantly attained in the paper of
Di Lazzaro et al. Such demonstrations in purely physiological parameters make the case of lorazepam’s atypical effects so
much the greater because this type of data is not altered by effort, motivation, schooling or intelligence, as behavioural
scores have been shown to be. Nevertheless, for confirmation of lorazepam’s atypical SAI effects it would be adequate to have Di Lazzaro et al.’s findings replicated in a randomized, placebo-controlled, preferably within-subject study comparing the effects of lorazepam with those of another BZ. The use of different doses would also be of interest to rule out that lower doses and/or less potent drugs, as is the case of diazepam in relation to lorazepam, lead to a decrease in SAI while higher doses/more potent drugs increase SAI.

The reasons for the difference in effects of lorazepam versus other BZs, drugs which are chemically so similar, are unknown. Lorazepam’s atypical profile has been tentatively ascribed to its pharmacodynamics although very little is still known of binding characteristics of BZ compounds to distinct receptor subtypes in different brain regions. We find that the most convincing justification for lorazepam’s atypical effects is that it may display specific binding profiles to as yet uncharacterized BZ receptors since this has been proved true for drugs that have qualitatively different effects from others in their class (e.g. Lelas et al. 2000). The only partial evidence for this, however, was perspicaciously pointed out by Ator & Griffiths (1997) in respect to a publication by Sanger & Benavides (1993), who showed, but did not discuss, that lorazepam had markedly different potency throughout rat brain regions while other BZs did not.

As lorazepam is one of the few BZs of non-synthetic origin that is found in brain, serum and milk of various species including
man (Sand et al. 2000), one might even daringly presume that there may well be specific receptors for this drug.

In summary, physiological evidence mounts of the atypical profile of lorazepam effects. More work similar to that of Di Lazzaro et al.’s is needed so that it may be determined what makes this drug unique among other BZs, a finding that will certainly prove important to the better understanding of GABAA receptor physiology.

S Pomp´eia, GM Manzano
Setor de Neurofisiologia Cl´inica
Dep. de Neurologia - UNIFESP, Brazil
S Tufik and OFA Bueno
Dep. Psicobiologia – UNIFESP
R. Napole˜ao de Barros, 925
CEP: 04024-002, S˜ao Paulo, Brazil

References
Ator NA & Griffiths RR (1997). J Pharmacol Exp Ther 282, 1442–1457.
Ator NA & Kautz MA (2000). Behav Pharmacol 11, 1–14.
Boucart M et al. (2000). 152, 249–255.
Curran HV (2000). In The Oxford Handbook of Memory, ed. Tulving E & Craik FIM, pp. 539–554. Oxford University Press, Oxford.
Di Lazzaro V et al. (2005). J Physiol 568, 315–323.
Duka T et al. (1996). Behav Pharmacol 7, 401–410.
Giersch A & Herzog MH (2004). Neuropsychopharmacology 29, 1386–1394.
Itil T et al. (1989). Int Clin Psychopharmacol 4, 273–283.
Lelas S et al. (2000). Exp Clin Psychopharmacol 8, 294–311.
Lorenceau J et al. (2005). Vision Res 45, 103–116.
Pomp´eia S et al. (2003a). Psychopharmacology 169, 211–212.
Pomp´eia S et al. (2003b). J Psychopharmacol 17, 31–40.
Sand P et al. (2000). Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci 250, 194–202.
Sanger DJ & Benavides J (1993). Psychopharmacology 111, 315–322.
Vidailhet P et al. (1994). Psychopharmacology 115, 397–406.
C The Physiological Society 2005 DOI: 10.1113/jphysiol.2005.569005

[Laudaphun]

I learned of a rather interesting experience with lorazepam last night. This is really strange and something I've never heard of before. My grandpa suffers from major panic/anxiety disorder. I mean he describes his panic attacks as being worse than I've ever heard anyone describe them before. So anyways, since his first episode or thereabouts, he has been on chlordiazepoxide (librium), then switched to diazepam (valium), and finally alprazolam (xanax). He was also put on some other non-benzo drugs to help with this.

Well, at some point in time his appendix had burst and needed to be removed. He wasn't allowed to eat for 4 days and vomitted back up everything he ate meaning he couldn't keep a pill down. I believe they had him on xanax by this point. So anyways he started going into a panic attack he said so they began giving him shots of diazepam(valium) which didn't help very much. Imipramine (Tofranil) was the other medication he was taking and it didn't come in an injection. They kept giving him shots of valium but it was having little effect. So eventually they had to call his primary care dr. and ask what else they could give him. My grandpa then asked me if I'd ever heard of lorazepam? He said at the time it was new on the market, but anyways they gave him a shot of lorazepam. He said he had no idea what he was doing, and pissed on the floor. He said that grandma told him that he was lying on his back with eyes shut pointing his finger in the air making little circles with his finger and making some odd sounding buzzing noise from his mouth. He claims he recalls that he remembers seeing some old town back in the late 1800's... but he was looking at it through some tunnel train thing... I don't know if it was a dream or a hallucination or what.

He told me that the nurse came in the room and wanted to give him another shot of lorazepam. I guess grandma was ready to fist fight the nurse before letting her shoot him up with anymore. As he finished the story grandma walked in the room and added, "yah, i don't know what he would have been like if they'd given him that second shot." I should have asked her about her angle on the story but it was very late and everyone was ready for bed.

I just find this strange as my grandpa has been having anxiety attacks since before benzos were invented when they had to give him meprobamate (Equanil)... So he's been on benzos since chlordiazepoxide/benzos were invented, switched to diazepam when it came out then aprazolam later on. I just thought it was so strange that someone who has been on benzos since day #1 of their existance could react so strangley to lorazepam. So apparently there is something very different about this one.

[allyourbase]

ativans unique pharmalogical properties stem from its ability to bond to human plasma. more of the unchanged drug reaches the receptor sites in the brain before being changed into active secondary metabolites, as with xanax, valium, et cetera. SWIM has never had what he would describe as a "psychedelic" high from it, but swim has taken so much in one day that he wasnt quite coherent for the following two days. swim has seen grown men pee their pants in their favorite leather chairs, lose their pants walking, and probably the activity swim equates most with this drug: falling flat on their asses. avoid concrete while on high doses.

[Alicia]

Although swia was told by nurses, that they found Lorazepam and Haloperidol seemed to work in relieving stress in tension in difficult individuals as well as helping them calm down in an immense way.

[testodan]

ativans unique pharmalogical properties stem from its ability to bond to human plasma. more of the unchanged drug reaches the receptor sites in the brain before being changed into active secondary metabolites, as with xanax, valium, et cetera. Can SWIY explain more on this? What does it mean?In a more simple language please.

[Alicia]

Can SWIY explain more on this? What does it mean?In a more simple language please.

It simply means more of the active drug reaches the brain more quickly in the blood (plasma) then the secondary actives and as a result is more pronounced effect wise.;)

[tayo]

unfortunately, SWIM found lorazepam to be the weakest of all the benzos, especially in panic attacks it proved useless up to 2.5mg at once, and it had very little effect in comparison to other benzos. just goes to show that everything affects everyone differently.

[BackToBasics]

Budgie never really had any 'psychedelic' effects from lorazepam, he just found that (apart from the sedation), he'd get amnesia..he had a few times where he couldn't remember what he'd been doing for days at a time..
One weekend, he'd been to a fun fair, to visit the mother-in-law, and a boat race and didn't realize he'd done any of it on the monday..his cage mate had to tell him that all this had happened.
Budgie much prefered Diazepam, it helped a lot better than lorazepam to control anxiety, and no amnesia..

It does seem very different to all the other benzo's that Budgie has been prescribed. He'd probably take any of the others over Lorazepam.

[tayo]

.......
Budgie much prefered Diazepam, it helped a lot better than lorazepam to control anxiety, and no amnesia..

It does seem very different to all the other benzo's that Budgie has been prescribed. He'd probably take any of the others over Lorazepam.


agreed about taking any of the others, (besides the sleeping benzos like temazepam), but the amnesia thing... swim thinks that valium, of the anxiety treating benzos, has the most potential for creating amnesia.

[BackToBasics]

Budgie always found it to be the other way..valium never really got him into the kind of state that lorazepam did. Lorazepam scares him, if he was offered it again by the doc, then he'd most likely say he doesnt want it.

Valium however...

[Laudaphun]

I was just looking at the chemical structure of Oxazepam in comparison with lorazepam... Oxazepam seems to have a very similar structure, however Oxazepam is not a benzo that I know much about. I was wondering if perhaps anyone had noticed any similarities between the 2 compounds as far as having a tendancy to act a bit differently than other benzodiazepines. Have people who react in an unexpected manner to lorazepam reacted to oxazepam in a similar fashion? Oxazepam doesn't seem to be commonly used at least in the part of the world where I live. I had created a picture of the 2 molecules side by side by haven't figured out how to add it to my post yet.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim got his hands on some oxazepam and didn't take it.He now wishes he had.Swim is very interested in this one now.

[Jatelka]

See here for more on Oxazepam...

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6607&highlight=oxazepam

[Henfer]

Actually, Lorazepam is the second strongest in inducing amnesia of all benzos. SWIH's prescribed on it, and yes, it is different than other benzos. Valium knocks SWIH totally out, fading in and out of sleep etc. However Lorazepam does not really make him "tired", just very relaxed. But as soon as he closes his eyes and lays down, SWIH's gone for the next 8 hours.

it's one of the benzos SWIH could be even at work on, as it somehow does not force you down, it's really more relaxing and helping the sleep very much. also it's got a very clear onset.

however, SWIH's doctor already said to him "if this is not the right for your stress induced insomnia, there are about 20 others out of "that" group we can try". Doc doesnt know SWIH's pretty good informed. SO next time when SWIH's there, he'll try another one. Lorazepam is really helpful for his sleep problems, however why not try if there's even a better one.

[soma]

My kitten thinks lorazepam is a bit different as well. Its not as euphoric as alprazolam, or temazepam, but it has a slight hallucinagenic quality to it. For my kitten, it has a indifferent-type euphoria to it, not quite monged out like diazepam or clonazepam, and definately not a "wheeee I feel mellow" feeling like the shorter-half-life benzos. Lorazepam seems to fall somewhere in between.

My kitten experienced "TV Snow" vision, if that makes any sense to other lorazepam-takers.