View Full Version : Can you OD on Codeine?
Hey,
A friend of SWIM said there was someone in his town who overdosed on Codeine. And since codeine is a drug SWIM would use from time to time, SWIM was just wondering whats the dangers with it, would an overdose be caused by an allergic reaction or can it be dose related?
SWIM rarely goes over 200mg of Codeine but would be interested in knowing is there any known dose that can be lethal, SWIM likes to know his drug and what to avoid. SWIM wouldn't want to get too adventurous with codeine one night and accidentally OD
robertone
19-01-2007, 22:20
Yup, one can od (overdose) from codeine. Just one can od from drinking water -- really! The ld50 (lethal dose 50%, meaning that 50% of all test persons will die at that dose level) for codeine is 800 mg.
Nagognog2
19-01-2007, 22:26
Correct. Somewhere between 800mg and 1.2gm codeine is the LD50 for humans. But this does not take into account a person who has developed a tollerance to narcotics. A hard-core junkie could easily take an amount that would kill an average non-addacted critter.
All opiates have the potential to cause overdose via respiratory depression. depending on tolerance of course
Thanks for the info, SWIM knows he will never go anywhere near the 800mg mark on codeine anyway.
Forthesevenlakes
20-01-2007, 01:17
If SWIM remembers correctly, morphine (which codeine is metabolized into, mostly) has a lower safety ratio than some of the more synthetic opiates, which increases the danger of respiratory depression a bit, since theres a smaller margin between an "effective" dose and a lethal one. So, while any opiate can be potentially lethal, codeine/morphine are of particular importance when it comes to gauging doses accordingly. But like Nagog says above, tolerance can quickly rise to the point where a "recreational" or maintenance dose for one user would kill another with less opiate experience. Hence SWIM's constant warnings about starting on low ends of the dose spectrum with these drugs.
Tortoise
20-01-2007, 02:23
The LD50 may be about 800mg, however, the nature of an LD50 is that it's an OD halway point. That means that you could OD on significantly less. Other factors need to be considered such as tolerance or lack of tolerance, body mass, variance of liver enzymes, other drugs and general sensitivity to opiods (i'm sure there are many more variables too). I have heard of reports of people ODing with 450mg of codeine so be careful!!
Cman1732
20-01-2007, 07:11
Jesus was tellin me that he really doesnt reccomend breaking 250-275. Jesus tells me that he has a freind that OD'd on 260, jesus just says be careful,and dont be dumb.
Obviously Swim knows we cant have links posted here so a simple yes/no answer will suffice. Are there any sites/literature available where one can find lethal doses ?
Please feel free to pm.
Swim should have pointed out he is not planning on committing homicide or suicide at this moment in time :)
Nagognog2
22-01-2007, 14:19
The Holy Book of organic and inorganic chemicals is The Merck Index. Published by Merck & Company, Inc. of Rahway, New Jersey - it includes the LD50 for a great many molecules. As well as other invaluble information. If you only could own one chem. book, this would be your best choice.
Forthesevenlakes
23-01-2007, 06:38
Although the Merck Index is invaluable, its also very expensive. If any lab rat out there wants to peruse it, but lacks the resources, try looking for it at the library (remember those?) Most public libraries would probably not have them, but university libraries are certain to. Just check in the science or chemistry section. Its surprisingly reader-friendly for such a large tome as well, SWIM remembers using it to prove to himself that cold water extraction would really work after reading about it online. He simply looked up codeine and acetaminophen, and deduced that the procedure would work based on their solubilities. Same goes for hydrocodone and oxycodone.
For those with the funds for such a book though, SWIM highly reccomends it. The book could literally save your life one day!
Another great option for finding LD50s is to run an online search for the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the chemical one is interested in. Oftentimes the LD50 and other excellent facts will be available simply from this. Nowhere near as useful as the Merck, but it can help out in a pinch.
ojos_de_brujo
24-01-2007, 15:22
Swim looked up Merck index in the local academic library and saw it is also available on CD-rom. Interesting.:D
darkglobe
05-02-2007, 00:28
Hoho.... The Merck Index.
That book is Gospel according to: Pure Genius, personified.
Just a bit off-topic (well actually <b>on</b> topic), nobody in their right minds would go too far over 400mg anyway. That's the general ceiling of efficacy for codeine.... basically taking more than that makes fuck all difference.
from erowid codeine FAQs:
The LD50 (lethal dose for %50) is 800mg in the average person. Death from codeine, unlike most opiates, includes restlessness, seizures and eventually death from respiratory arrest. Some sources indicate that the lower-end LD50 may be around 500mg, so doses above 450mg are in the red zone.
Anyway, from perosnal experience, I think that doses over 300mg are too much (quite unpleasant) for an individual with no tolerance to opiates.
Mixing too much alcohol or depressant substances (downers, substances that make you feel drowsy/sedated on their own...) with codeine is also a good way to overdose on it (even if the dose of codeine taken was a safe one), so just don't.
kapitan_oko
22-02-2007, 18:54
I have done dosages like 900mg (with antihistamine I generation) and heard of doing dosages like 1200mg so the LD50 is much higher than 400mg. Of course I don't recommend that big amounts of codeine because is realy danger, the respiratory depression wasn't so scarry but It was hard to breath :) Codeine haven't so much respiratory depression efect like others opiates/opioides (like in. ex. morphine). Of course I have tolerance on codeine, and have done much stronger opiates and normal dosage of codeine is 450-500mg, but I prefer 600mg-700mg max. I have tried 900mg only once and I must say that 600mg-700mg is good enough ( of course everything with antihistamine I generation - Aviomarin that also boost the opiate efect). I remember days when even 50mg was a nice feeling and 100mg was very strong.... but now as I was saying min. 450mg is something that is woth doing and money.
Sorry but that is WAY too much!:eek:
Swim has a big tolerance but 900 mg is dangerous .
acolon_5
22-02-2007, 19:53
My SO has had sever allergic reactions to all the codeine opiates she has been legally perscribed...Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, and codeine. She had to be rushed to the hospital due to her throat closing up. She had rashes all over her body. (they started her on Codein, then Hydro and the Perc's all from having her wisdom teeth removed..they ended up having to give her darvocet)
Sorry to bump this thread, but swim was doing some research on codeine and saw that there's actually a ceiling effect of around 400 mg, ie the liver can't convert more than 400 mg of codeine to the 10% equivalent of morphine at one time. Does anyone know the pharmodynamics of a codeine overdose then, because it seems like it'd be impossible for the overdose to be due to an excess of morphine. The only conjecture that swim can think of is that the unconverted codeine molecules themselves, which have weak opiod affinity, causes the marginal respiratory depression that pushes the overdosing patient into death. In which case the dose/response curve for codeine would be very sublinear, and make it a very safe drug.
Answering swims question isn't a matter of life and death, his curiosity was just piqued by the ceiling effect and it reminded him of this thread. If any swims out there have the answer it would be enlightening.
renegades
04-03-2007, 05:29
This alkaloid is found in opium in concentrations ranging from 0.7 to 2.5 percent.
Oftenly Found in prescription cough syrip, and basically slows you down all around.
The good effects:
· High with dizziness
· Skin, Lips, Face feel numb
· Relieves pain quite well
The bads:
· decreased sex drive
· Urinary haulting or problems
Only knew one brotha who OD'ed on Codeine, man that's like OD'in on orange juice.
darkglobe
08-03-2007, 00:32
It bugs me how tolerance can possibly effect the LD50. I mean, too much of something is too much of something, right? I'm itching to learn how too much of something is ok if you're accustomed to it.
Could it be some sort of enzyme increase? More agonist/receptors? It's a mystery.
SWIM recently tried 450mg Codeine with 300mg Caffeine to see whether the respiratory depression was affected. SWIM learnt that this time not only was breathing slow and laborious, his heart rate was fairly fast and pounding.
I consider Codeine a relatively safe drug if used in moderation. As I once read somewhere on Erowid, it's up to the user to actively notice the more subtle effects of lower dosages. This will in turn give the user a better appreciation for the drug, and also a reduced risk of OD.
Sorry for the stupidly long posts as usual.
~Dark
leigh1981
20-03-2007, 09:57
This may be a really pathetic question considering swim has been addicted to codeine for over 10 years but how much codeine is in a t3. Swim has never really been on websites like this or researched her drug of choice - she just knows it does what she wants so she has always used it. She has had small period of a few months at a time of not using but mostly been using constantly since age 13. She usually takes 2-3 t3's at a time to get high but still 100% functioning and can still work. She doesn't do the extraction thing mentioned on here so too many pills make her puke with all the acetaminophen (sorry spelling bad). And when swiy say 900mg is the lethal dose in 50% of people to take it, is that 900mg in a 4 hour period? 6 hours? daily? Any answers to swims questions would be great - she is finding this forum she discovered very interesting as she didnt know codeine use was so popular - just always what she has done.
Tortoise
20-03-2007, 23:12
This may be a really pathetic question considering swim has been addicted to codeine for over 10 years but how much codeine is in a t3. Swim has never really been on websites like this or researched her drug of choice - she just knows it does what she wants so she has always used it. She has had small period of a few months at a time of not using but mostly been using constantly since age 13. She usually takes 2-3 t3's at a time to get high but still 100% functioning and can still work. She doesn't do the extraction thing mentioned on here so too many pills make her puke with all the acetaminophen (sorry spelling bad). And when swiy say 900mg is the lethal dose in 50% of people to take it, is that 900mg in a 4 hour period? 6 hours? daily? Any answers to swims questions would be great - she is finding this forum she discovered very interesting as she didnt know codeine use was so popular - just always what she has done. 900mg is a crazy dose,Swim thought the LD50 was closer to about 600mg. Anyway, that dosage refers to amount in your bloodstream at any given time (or one dose). Theoretically, somebody who would kick the bucket with 900mg of codeine taken at once could possibly be just fine if they took 300mg three times, spaced apart by a few hours. But it all depends on tolerance (300mg would not be a good idea for a person with low or no tolerance).
I have to say that if you've had enough acetaminophen to make you puke, you're very lucky not to have needed a new liver by now! Swim doesn't want to encourage anybody to take recreational drugs, however, if you're going to do it, he advises you to be safe and learn how to do a cold-water extraction from now on. It's more time-consuming but much better than acute liver failure.
Be safe.
darkglobe
21-03-2007, 00:39
SWIM's monkey's second cousin once removed's pet digeridoo now vomits every time he takes paracetamol (acetaminophen). So he doesn't take it anymore.
Just to add to what Tortoise said, users with high tolerance can quite easily ingest 5 times the LD50 and stay perfectly healthy.
Again, I'd reiterate the above: 300mg is NOT a first-time dose! This dose is for those with fair-high tolerance only.
Swim has no opiate tolerance (he only uses maybe once a month) and ingests 300 mg of codeine. Though he has a fairly high metabolism at 6'3", 200 lbs, pretty much all lean muscle.
darkglobe
21-03-2007, 18:13
That's fine. You worked your way up to that, though, right? Coz people all have different natural tolerances.
Some are hypersensitive to some substances, others are barely touched by them. YMMV.
Codeine has a ceiling effect around 200-400mg, depending on the person and history of opiate/opioid use. This means the liver is unable to convert more codeine into its active compounds, including morphine. Medically speaking, this means doses above the ceiling effect will give no greater analgesia but the side effect increase as the dose increases. It can cause spontaneous respiratory failure even in people who have high tolerance towards narcotics.
erriksen
19-07-2007, 00:32
SWIM has been using it a long time now and finds anything above 300mg becomes very uncomfortable (very hot and itchy feet and hands). As has been pointed out, very high amounts don't give SWIY anything extra so save it and use it again another time.
roidrage
22-07-2007, 02:47
maybe nothing but i was pretty worryed afew nights ago, swim havent been taking much for a long time and was having 330mg using cwe so would be less a time but had built upto it but the other i only 5 30mg tabs without any paracetamol in it so didnt need cwe.. at first it felt ok but then instead of tired like i usally get it was allmost like taking extacy i was boncing around very alert and with huge smile on my face
after about an hour i think i was hot and hell and not feeling to great, my head felt strange and for the rest of the night i layed on my bed naked and kept running kitchen towels under the tap and infreezer untill froozen and then ontop of my head to try cool it down
Sorry to bump this thread, but swim was doing some research on codeine and saw that there's actually a ceiling effect of around 400 mg, ie the liver can't convert more than 400 mg of codeine to the 10% equivalent of morphine at one time. Does anyone know the pharmodynamics of a codeine overdose then, because it seems like it'd be impossible for the overdose to be due to an excess of morphine. The only conjecture that swim can think of is that the unconverted codeine molecules themselves, which have weak opiod affinity, causes the marginal respiratory depression that pushes the overdosing patient into death. In which case the dose/response curve for codeine would be very sublinear, and make it a very safe drug.
Answering swims question isn't a matter of life and death, his curiosity was just piqued by the ceiling effect and it reminded him of this thread. If any swims out there have the answer it would be enlightening.
Of course it would be induced by the excess Codeine itself surely not by the converted morphine..and of course it's a very safe drug if it wasn't this safe you couldn't get it OTC as they do in Canada and the UK and other places across the globe..or order it online without a Rx.;)
codeine is 1/10 of 10mg of morphine .... swim never heard of CWE codeine od.... never...more like Fent or hydromorphone....swiy must be carefull
beentheredonethatagain
05-08-2007, 11:59
May I recomend a stool softner . wow that much codeine and you will have bricks in your tummy! those will hurt comming out
kapitan_oko
05-08-2007, 13:09
It Is a very safe drug. Codeine Is having just a little depression breathing effect even with high doses and as SWIM wrote in previous message SWIM done high doses but actually prefer dosages around 300-450 (It's 2-3 whole blisters) with 300 the best amount, when doing 450(3 blisters, much acetaminophen) with CWE there are some bigger losses so It's around 400-something.
Few days ago a friend of SWIM done 960mg!!! and SWIM know 'It's a way to much', but the tolerance of doing Codeine once or even two a day, for few months allowed Him to do so, He just have really intense and long lasting feeling, but It Is a wasting of Codeine. If SWIY doing all days tolerance is so high that SWIY can do much bigger quantities without any harm. SWIM must say that the myth with anything above 400mg Isn't working Is refer to analgesia, so just a pain control Is with 400mg a limit, not high, because that are different things. People who was studding how codeine working didn't have a high as the primary reason but analgesia, and SWIM thinks that even bigger doses of Codeine with a little of tolerance are giving also a bigger analgesia. SWIM don't know from where this myth come from, but It's a Myth! If SWIY didn't feel It, maybe just eating some 'Antihistamines I generation' will help, without that, eating codeine all days, or just very often, not giving body to clean is not worth. Codeine is weak and must be enhanced with something when is done too often. Eating often also gives addiction. It's almost that point of addiction that gives morphine, maybe morphine with doing that long is a little harder to get off, but trust me just a second day without a drug and It's pain, with 4/5 days after last dosage It's peak and It's hard not to take something. So watch out how often SWIY do It, because the best high is when you do a one-two day break, of course when SWIY want to do often and isn't addicted.
sunshine_buddy
28-08-2007, 16:03
i heard that death by codeine OD is different to other opiate overdoses- with spasms ect, is this true? if it is it sounds strange- what could be the possible reasons for the difference?
highganja99
18-10-2007, 19:37
SWIM has done 500mg before and would not recommend going past 400mg. When SWIM took 500mg he knew he had taken to much within 30 mins. Eyes rolling round his head, and instead of sedation like other opiates, the 500mg dose of codeine made him very agitated and seemed to increase his heartbeat considerably. Indeed he felt the effects were toxic like being poisoned. Saying that he still had a full codeine experience but he could have had the same pleasurable effects with 300mg-400mg and none of the unpleasant and worrying effects of a 500mg dose.
roserjoe
20-10-2007, 04:00
SWIM has quite a big tolerance and has done some fairly hefty doses in the past. He normally sticks to a 500-600mg dose, but the other night he tried 700-800mg and it was really, really nice. Reminded him of the times he first did codeine. His tolerance is obviously too high and he is giving it a break for a month or two.
Tortoise
20-10-2007, 04:02
Good luck with that Roserjoe!
greenapple
25-10-2007, 00:28
so most people have said that the LD50 is 800mg, and even anything around 400mg can make a person OD depending on their tolerance, metabolism, etc.
what if, for example, SWIY had a dose of about 150mg in the evening, went to bed then in the morning wanted another 150mg dose. That would equal 300mg in a 24 hour period.
what SWIM wants to know is how long does it take for codeine to be out of your system so you don't OD? like after one dose of, say, 300mg, should you wait 24 hours until the next dose? apologies if this is in the wrong thread, thought it was kind of relevant....
thanks for you help guys!
Revancheshepherd
25-10-2007, 02:05
I could.
Regarding this OD on Codeine I know someone who might or might not be me, who took 440mg of Codeine - some lost to clumsiness (moderate tolerance to opiates) but the thing is....... he has been snacking on bromazepam also. he took at least 10 of those at 3mg at each but possbly more, he is also on 1200mg of lithium but i think this is not particularly relevant. The codeiene involved a CWE so i dont think acetaminophen has much in this equation. The question is, this person is ok I think right now, but will he or she wake up dead tomorrow morning from respiratory depression? ps Bromazepam is related it Diazepam (u can tell cause it ends in -epam) it about half as powerful as a moderate dose of valium(diazepam). Id like to know this soon in case someone will suffer some kind of damage.
PS this person is feeling pretty good right now
Well thanks all for posting so soon, it been 13.5 hours and the person is alive. I believe that it was probably ok stack that shite together but those bromzaepams worrry me they are so snacky, the lactose base helps to supplement the lactose free milk that SWIM drinks (is a vegetarian) (not me tho i love meat). Plus the drug is quite addicitve. Lesson learned dont trust you guys to give enough time notcie to tell me if this was a good idea, not that you are doctors or anything anyways, the other thing is that it seems like codeine even in large quantities (to a tolerant user) will not stack negatively to a great extent with benzos.
Tortoise
28-11-2007, 23:58
Yeah, bright idea Skinny. Take a potentially lethal combination of drugs and when you're worried that you may die, post a request for help on an internet forum that could potentially go for hours without anyone even looking at it and then get shirty when you don't get a response. Smart guy.
Next time you need an urgent response why don't you write to a magazine instead?
robshaka
29-11-2007, 00:57
from erowid codeine FAQs:
The LD50 (lethal dose for %50) is 800mg in the average person. Death from codeine, unlike most opiates, includes restlessness, seizures and eventually death from respiratory arrest. Some sources indicate that the lower-end LD50 may be around 500mg, so doses above 450mg are in the red zone.
Anyway, from perosnal experience, I think that doses over 300mg are too much (quite unpleasant) for an individual with no tolerance to opiates.
Mixing too much alcohol or depressant substances (downers, substances that make you feel drowsy/sedated on their own...) with codeine is also a good way to overdose on it (even if the dose of codeine taken was a safe one), so just don't.
Hmmm this has me worrried now. I usually drink 4 or 5 beers on 330mg of codeine. After about my 3rd beer i take about 120 mg which is just stupid because it hardly does anything, though i can't stop myself. So that's 450 mg + beer and sometimes as much as half a bottle of rum. Do you have any sources on the dangers of mixing codeine and alcohol?
darkglobe
29-11-2007, 15:58
Check the file archive, there's bound to be something. If not, UTFSE!
Failing those, a certain well-known search engine may turn up some results...
(PS: It's dangerous, don't do it. That's about as scientific as the advice needs to be, really.)
Sorry for bumping this old thread.
So, I took my first high dose of codeine today, about 500MG, and I'm feeling like shit now. I took it about 12 hours ago. Bout 6 hours in I started having bad stomach pains, and then threw up, a lot. Was feeling slightly nauseous from then on. My stomach is getting slightly worse again. I CWE'ed T3's, so it shouldn't be a Tylenol OD. Are these the effects of too much codeine? I'm a little concerned.
Razorbladekiss
06-08-2008, 03:18
Was that your first ever dose of codeine then at 500mg? If so thats a bad starting point man.
My pet Dalek can sympathize he once took about 500mg of codeine (with tolerance) and had the same effects swiy stated. I believe your 'symptoms' as it were are from a slight OD on codeine. My Dalek knows what its like to have too much acap and its slightly different.
It'll feel like a really bad hangover and throwing up within the first 12 hours (without tolerance) but give it most of the day and swiy will feel better.
Does any one know if hair of dog works with codeine? As in, if your hung over drink a little alcohol to sublte the hang over could you take a little codeine to stop feeling so bad?
Also Nakes, dont self incriminate =]
flipper70
16-09-2008, 13:45
Swim just read this thread and its interesting, got a question tho. Swim tried CWE first time this weekend. Before that swim took 6 N+ at a time but thought that was a bad idea - thanks for this site with the CWE info. Anyway, swim used 15 co codamol and was successful! Have to say tho that amount of tablets was a bit scary to see in a glass, so swim just wondered ( swim understands the level that causes OD ) is it likely to do damage to swim at the dosage of 120 -150g?? (15-18 tabs) swim realises its not lethal, but is unsure what effect even a low dose could have minus paracetamol? cheers anyswiy x:confused: