Anxiety - methamphetamine withdrawal

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM feels like giving up on giving up. 3 days is all it has been, 3 days with no methamphetamine, the anxiety is all swim can feel, its not about craving anymore, its not about wanting to get high or even about wanting to feel happy, its about feeling comfortable in her own skin.

She should have planned this better. She should have prepared something to calm her down. All she has is her prescription Zopiclone, 15mg at night, but SWIM is taking at least 22.5mg at night and at least 7.5mg during the day, she thinks she should have got another script for Klonapin, but it took her a long time to come off the benzo, so she doesn't want to be repeating that cycle. And she has been drinking e2 for its miniscule dose of Taurine (213mg) which helps a bit SWIM thinks but can see why recommended dose is so much higher, and she is not too hot on the caffeine combo either, that cannot be helping.

Should SWIM give up and try again when she is better prepared? If she keeps on keeping on or whatever the saying is, she is going to have some really nasty nights when her prescription runs out prematurely, cause right now thats about all shes got, and she is trying to be controlled, but all she is doing is staring at the clock and waiting for a time she thinks is ok to call bedtime so she can take 3 of the pills and sleep for a bit.

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIY has gone three whole days with no methamphetamine. For a substance one has been addicted to, thats quite an accomplishment. SWIM thinks SWIY should ride it out and finish the kick, since SWIY has already come this far. The anxiety should start to dissipate soon. Think about it this way: most drug withdrawals will produce effects opposite to those of the drug itself. If SWIY had been using meth at least partially to produce a sense of sociability, confidence, and disinhibition, its only natural that SWIY is going to experience some anxiety.

Perhaps doing this without Klonopin would be the best choice, albeit a difficult task, if SWIY had been using that alot in the past too. The caffeine and taurine may be something that is contributing to the anxiety, however, and SWIY may want to avoid use of that for a day and see if that helps. In SWIM's experience, even mild stimulants like caffeine can be very unpleasant when attempting to overcome an addiction.

Perhaps cut back on the Zopiclone to a lower dose if SWIY is worried about running out, or go see SWIY's doctor and look into Zolpidem (Lunesta) which is just as efficacious if not more. Keep at it, this is not an easy thing to do, but SWIY can do it. The present might be very nerve-wracking and unpleasant, but remember that each passing second is one second closer to feeling better. Give it some time and think positively: SWIY is doing something very difficult, and something that the average person cannot even fathom, but she can accomplish this and be proud of herself. Hang in there, and perhaps look into some herbal supplements to help with feeling calmer and to aid with sleep. You can do it!

[kitten1982]

i dont really know much about this drug, so i apologise for my ignorance. swim is also trying to come off drugs though, heroin. been on subutex for 2 years, and had last tablet sunday nite.
I just wana say that swim personally thinks that swiy shud ask bout increasing swiys doses? clearly its not enough to keep swiy on a level. as for feeling in ones own skin, i think that part just has to happen. swim has felt very alien at times, and as though nobody else around has a clue, and it is true. so i suppose the best thing to do is to be by urself for a while, and keep ur mind occupied by mayb watching films or wateva else swiy likes doing.
i really hope it starts to get beta for you.

[~lostgurl~]

Thanks for the replies. SWIM has been in bed for 3 days and hasn't had to deal with other people yet, dealing with herself is hard enough, she should have planned some supplements earlier, right now (this second anyway) every health shop is closed, though SWIM can hardly see herself managing to go out and buy anything now. But her last Z is starting to relieve some anxiety and she can probably take her night time dose soon.... it's 6pm and they take a few hours to kick in properly, but the last thing she should be doing is letting her life revolve around another drug......

There is no chance of getting this med increased, SWIM is lucky to get what she does. Lunesta isn't available here (but it is pretty much the same as zopiclone anyway). Very mixed emotions around the e2 drink, it seemed to be helping but SWIM is not sure. it's hard to keep busy with no energy, no motivation and anxiety screaming and kicking every inch of SWIM

[kitten1982]

i know it must be hard for swiy, its 5 oclock in the morning here and swim has been up all night too. but it has been 3 days for swiy already, and if u gave up now, u would only have to do those same 3 days ova again at some point in the future anyway. think about it like that. swiy has already got 3 days out of the way, im sure there cant be much longer to go? u have gota stick it out, there would be no point in turning back now. has swiy got anybody close to them who knows wat they r goin through? cos i know it mite sound scary, but it mite help to ask them to come ova and c u, if only to acknowledge the fact that u r going through something as big as this, and just keep swiy company?

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM doesn't really feel like seeing anyone right now, the people she knows wouldnt really understand anyway. On the positive SWIM's 7.5mg dose of Z has kicked in, she doesn't feel any buzz or sleepiness. she does feel less anxious though, which is a relief, she feels almost normal, hopefully the effects dont fade off anytime soon.... but by then it should be sleep time anyway. :)

[~lostgurl~]

So SWIM used to be on a range of medications, including Effexor/Venlafaxine (SSNRI antidepressant) which she found significantly helped with meth cravings and anxiety coming off meth. Anyway, SWIM thought she may still have some of these pills leftover from a previous prescription so she went on a hunt for them. The reason SWIM had not looked for them previously was because she is unsure how long it will take for the desired effects, as antidepressants can take weeks to work.

Well take a look at what SWIM found all in one bottle:

1466




Yes Effexor & Lithium (which she doesn't think well help any right now) AND Klonapin!!! hopefully just enough to get her through the next few weeks without her using up all her Zopiclone by taking them during the day....... Yes SWIM has a very big smile on her face right now! God is looking down on lostgurl today and smiling that is for sure!

Not sure how clear the pic is but she has 23 X 0.5mg Klonapin, 26 X 75mg Effexor and 36 X 250?mg Lithium plus 3 X unknown long white pills with nothing identifiable on them, she thinks they are lithium too.

.....still smiling... yay

[Nicaine]

Good to hear things worked out for SWIY... it always seems to happen with SWIM as well that little or nothing is available to help when he's kicking something (bad luck comes in batches, I guess) so that's really good news... best of luck with the kick.

P.S. careful with the Effexor, starting dose is 37.5mg I think.

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM had a very bizarre night. When she found her bottle of pills last night (at about 10pm) she had already taken 3 Zopiclones so she decided not to have any klonapin, but took 1 X 75mg Effexor XR capsule. Up until a few months ago SWIM was taking 75-150mg Effexor per day for 18 months, and started on 75mg dose so she really didn't expect this to have much (or any) affect on her right away.

At 4am SWIM woke up and had the following conversation via IM with a friend:

lostgurl: I just woke up and I feel like I’m pilling bro
Friend: feel like you’re what?
lostgurl: rolling
Friend: lol...ok
lostgurl: nah I feel fucked up, it’s freaking me out
lostgurl: but I’m smiling, a weird fucked up smile that I can’t control
Friend: you should enjoy it
lostgurl: I feel real nauseas too
lostgurl: shit almost got the weird e jaw thing wtf
lostgurl: maybe the effexor wasn’t a great idea?
Friend: or was it?
lostgurl: no I feel like throwing up
Friend: mmmm...yummy
Friend: j/k
lostgurl: definitely got the e teeth jaw thing happening wtf is going on!
Friend: dunno
Friend: take some e by chance?
lostgurl: I guess that is possible, but can’t imagine how, no that’s not possible
Friend: you still kickin'?
lostgurl: was just sick
lostgurl: I don’t feel right
Friend: whats wrong
lostgurl: dunno but it not right
lostgurl: hot and cold, sick, smiling, head feels weird, body feels tingly
Friend: withdraw symptoms?
Friend: how long has it been btw?
lostgurl: nope
Friend: 3 days?
lostgurl: 3 days
lostgurl: I think its cause I took an antidepressant effexor last night
lostgurl: but I took effexor for 18 months so this is weird
Friend: I want those orange pills
lostgurl: klonapin?
Friend: yes
lostgurl: I don’t think I took one of them yet
lostgurl: why do you?
Friend: I like my klonapin with methadone....by itself it really doesn't do much for me
lostgurl: lol
lostgurl: I'm smiling and I don’t know why
Friend: well that’s cause you talking to a hotty
Friend: a snobby one I hear too
lostgurl: really, thanks for clarifying that, now why do I want to be sick though?
Friend: that part I don’t know
lostgurl: I can't think, gonna rest a bit


SWIM is still feeling slightly hung over from this, her jaw and teeth feel weird and her head is still kinda fuzzy. It felt like she was on MDMA but without the euphoria. She took a Klonapin about an hour ago and seems to be coming right now. Very low levels of anxiety too so thats good!

[Nicaine]

No surprise from here on the strength of effects with 75mg, a few months is plenty of time to lose all tolerance to an antidepressant.

SWIM started on 37.5mg/day of Effexor XR a few days ago... he's actually been feeling very wired/euphoric today on it, almost hypomanic. Not a bad serotonin-type buzz, except for the nausea & headaches... trouble is, using it normally as an antidepressant means feeling this way all the time, which is a considerably less pleasant prospect... :(

Anyway, keep us updated on how things go for SWIY... :)

[~lostgurl~]

Interesting Nicaine, SWIM feels a bit hypomanic too actually...... hmmm. What else has SWIY been taking? vitamins/supplements/sleep aids? SWIM thinks maybe the e2's she has been drinking interacted with Effexor, because she started on the same dose and took it with and without meth for 18 months and never noticed anything even slightly like this. SWIMs jaw is still clenching, but she is feeling much better than she was yesterday evening, and better than the early hours of this morning that is for sure!

[Nicaine]

Interesting Nicaine, SWIM feels a bit hypomanic too actually...... hmmm. What else has SWIY been taking? vitamins/supplements/sleep aids?
Just clonazepam (not that much) and Ambien (too much, but not massive amounts). Nothing else that would have him feeling buzzy like this... it's recognizably serotonergic in nature. Sort of semi-pleasant, but serotonin has never been SWIM's cup of tea and he'll be missing his dopamine (and corresponding sex drive) very soon.
SWIM thinks maybe the e2's she has been drinking interacted with Effexor, because she started on the same dose and took it with and without meth for 18 months and never noticed anything even slightly like this. SWIMs jaw is still clenching, but she is feeling much better than she was yesterday evening, and better than the early hours of this morning that is for sure!
Glad to hear it... kicking any strong stimulant is a b*tch. Hell, a lot of people have trouble even with coffee. SWIM's not sure he's done with stimulants yet, but he's starting to conclude he can't take regular/often type use anymore. Way too harmful to his body and brain chemistry. If anything, it's gotta be really occasional from now on (if that turns out to be impossible, he'll have to give it up).

[~lostgurl~]

9 days free of meth and SWIM is feeling much better! Still a bit of anxiety, but minimal compared to the first 3 days, though SWIM is taking a few Clonazepams, as needed, but is not finding she needs them all that much..... though she wishes she had access to them during those first 3 days!

SWIM is starting to feel more energetic and more motivated, she spent the week sleeping and eating junk food but last night she did the weeks dishes that she couldn't be f**ked doing all week (big pile). SWIM is also feeling somewhat positive about life without meth, she's not convinced yet, but she has at times felt like life is actually better now........ she's hoping thoughts like this will frequent her conciousness more often.

As for the Effexor "trip" SWIM still cannot figure it out, the slightly pleasant and also slightly unpleasant seratonin buzz SWIM felt took over 24 hours to leave, so SWIM has decided to leave the antidepressants alone for the time being.

SWIM will hopefully be getting some Taurine, phenylalanine, Melatonin, Vitamin B-6 & Vitamin C later today and will report back with effects, as she is very keen to use natural supplements if they really work..... SWIM has doubts but she is hoping for the best.

[kindasortahappy]

swim just joined thsi forum tonight, but has been without meth for almost 2 years, been on klonopin, busiprone, xanax & paxil for 2 yrs, urge is still there, but no bad withdrawl anymore past the first 60 days...still smoke great bud

stick with it,
its better kniowing theres more of us

[~lostgurl~]

Update: SWIM has 2 weeks clean of meth, and things are not as she expected….. Every time in the past that SWIM has tried to give up she has felt depressed, exhausted, no energy, constant cravings, no motivation, even after 2 months. But this time SWIM is manic. Crazy manic, unpredictable manic, and doing things she will probably regret somewhere down the track, but SWIM feels fucking fantastic, like she is high.

Most of the anxiety left after about 4 days and SWIM has not been sleeping much, maybe 5 hours a night induced with Zopiclone. The Clonazepams are almost gone, but SWIM hasn’t taken one in about 4 days.

SWIM went to a naturapath on Thursday or Friday and got all the supplements below but so far she is unsure about what is doing what for her. Something in the mix is making her less manic in the mornings, which is a good thing but feels like a bad thing as SWIM is loving the manic, it feels better than any high she has ever had.

Now SWIM has been trying to understand what is going on with her cause it just doesn’t seem right that she feels this good this soon. She’s putting a lot of it down to Bipolar, but there is also the independence and taking control back of her life, not relying on drugs to make her feel good. Then there are the supplements but SWIM was feeling like this before them, except for the Taurine which SWIM was taking through e2 energy drinks, So maybe this is all Taurine buzz? Or maybe it’s the sugar and the caffeine in the drinks? Most likely a combination of it all but SWIM has done this dance before and her whole world was the total opposite of what it is right now.

A friend of SWIM’s dealer popped over last night just to say “HIGH” yeah right, he’s never been to SWIM's place before, anyway SWIM just told him “no thanks don’t need or want your shit and I’m busy so bugger off” Was not tempted in the least. That has never happened before. If it is under her nose she would never have dreamed she could say NO.

SWIM has been wanting to post this for a few days now but most of the time she has been too manic to focus and put it all together. Anyway, below are the supplements, SWIM couldn’t get any melatonin as it is ‘prescription only’ here so she will talk to her Dr later this week about maybe adding this to her concoction. The below are what SWIM was told by the naturapath to take, and SWIM has bought all the supplements, she hasn’t had the protein shake powder yet and she only took the B&C Vitamin for the first time this morning cause she thought it was overkill, and SWIM did not feel that good after this mornings doses taking B&C complex plus Ultra C plus B6 is a bit too much of something (blurry eyes, head fog) so SWIM will need to play around with supplements a bit more to get it right, any advice out there on this?

Extra B + C
Take 1 pill 1 hour before breakfast
A high potency balanced B-Complex with 500mg Non-Acid Vitamin C
Contains:
B1, B2, B3, B5, B6, B12
Calcium, Biotin, Choline Bitartrate, Folic acid, Inositol
Vitamin C

Ultra C 1000
Take 1 pill 1 hour before breakfast & 1 pill with dinner
Advanced Poly-ascorate Vitamin C Complex with Bioflavonoids
Contains:
Vitamin C
Calcium, Magnesium, Potassium
Bioflavonoids, Rosehip, Zinc

B6
Take 1 pill 1 hour before breakfast
Contains:
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride 240 mg

DL-Phenylalanine 500mg
Take 1 pill 1 hour before breakfast
Contains:
D-Phenylalanine 250mg
L-Phenylalanine 250mg

Women’s Multivitamin & Mineral
Take 1 pill with lunch

Multi Mineral
Take 1 pill with dinner

Taurine500mg
Take 1 pill 1 hour after dinner or in the evening

Cannabis Sativa 30c
Take 2 tablets 15 mins apart up to 6 doses per day for cravings as req.
HOMOEOPATHIC

Protein Shake Powder
Can substitute or be used in combination with breakfast or dinner

[radiometer]

I don't know anything about the benefits of taurine, but it sure seems like cutting out all that caffeine and sugar would be a good idea. Especially if the anxiety returns. Best of luck to SWIY.

[Nicaine]

Now SWIM has been trying to understand what is going on with her cause it just doesn’t seem right that she feels this good this soon.
All SWIM has to say is that a stimulant addiction can make a person so consistently depressed, they truly don't realize how much better it's possible to feel. Could just be random chance that the contrast is so evident this time... life's capricious like that. If it IS "just" bipolar, it's still a good thing (tm) if it keeps SWIY away from meth.

This notion of feeling better (which is more the memory of past cocaine kicks) has not gotten SWIM away from his own use of stimulants, but it has been pushing him closer every day... he's got a few more days of Ambien withdrawal + a delivery on the way, then he intends to weigh everything & make some serious choices. Even if it's just getting away for a few months or something.

Can SWIM drop SWIY a few PM's if he decides to kick? Just for the contact with someone else doing it. Or if SWIY wants to drop him a PM with any tips or suggestions, he's open to it... he's been pretty disconnected from what the rest of the human race considers everyday/normal life.

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM has not felt manic in 3 days, she still feels happy, and quite positive about her decision to quit meth, no cravings still (thank God) but she is definitley missing the manic though she could see it was leading to trouble (not drug related trouble just trouble :o)

She had her first good night sleep last night - 7 hours and feels much more refreshed this morning than she has on previous mornings, especially the last couple which she woke up feeling very groggy.

As far as the supplements go she has stopped the B&C complex, but is still taking the rest, she recommends taking no more than 750mg Taurine at night and not right before sleep. She tried her protein powder in a smoothie and it tasted pretty good so she palns to do this on a regular basis now.

Off to the Dr today to talk about a substitute for her Zopiclone sleeping pill and after that the only thing she still needs to quit is cigarettes (maybe a new years resolution?)

SWIM has not been very active, despite her increased energy, she thinks she is just being lazy though and plans to start getting out and about more (hmmm near future?) especially before she puts on too much weight - she has put on about 15 pounds in 2 weeks which doesn't seem too bad for the amount of food she has been eating and her inactivity.

Her main issue at the moment is the lack of mania, which felt like a sober high to SWIM, and she is worried that without some sort of high she will find herself getting bored, this hasn't happened yet though.... Has anyone else felt manic after coming off meth? It seems that most people swing the other way with depression and tiredness, as SWIM usually has in the past, but would find it interesting to talk to anyone who has experienced anything similar to this, even if it was withdrawing from another drug. SWIM will keep updating as things change for her.

[Forthesevenlakes]

Her main issue at the moment is the lack of mania, which felt like a sober high to SWIM, and she is worried that without some sort of high she will find herself getting bored, this hasn't happened yet though....Drugs are but one of many ways to alter one's state of consciousness. Meditation, exercise, yoga, even self-hypnosis are some routes to acheive states outside of the normative definition of consciousness. Why not look into some of these? At the very least it would keep things interesting for SWIY while trying out something new. Yes, it may sound cheesy and trite to suggest these, but from what SWIM has read they seem to work for many people.

My congratulations go out to SWIY for keeping up the struggle against this demon. SWIY really seems to be doing quite well, and its not an easy habit to give up. I hope these posts can serve as an inspiration to others in the future.

[~lostgurl~]

Thanks for the words of wisdom FTSL, you are right that SWIM should try some of these alternatives. They take a little more effort than just taking a pill as such, but would be worth it if it gives SWIM what she is looking for without the use of a substance.

SWIM went to Dr today, and her Dr thinks she should hold off quitting Zopiclone (her sleeping pills) and cigarettes for awhile and she should just concentrate her energy on giving up meth.

She also upped SWIM’s dose of Zopiclone from 2 X 7.5mg to 2.5 X 7.5mg so that she can take half a pill during the day for anxiety if she feels like it. She said Zopiclone could easily work better than Clonazepam/Klonapin for SWIM’s anxiety as it is shorter acting, and it is not usually prescribed for this purpose as it would likely cause most people to fall asleep, but given that SWIM has a tolerance for Zopiclone it can actually work for this purpose. SWIM finds this very interesting as she doesn’t know anyone who is prescribed this pill for anxiety.

SWIM’s Dr offered a prescription of Lorazepam as this is also short acting, but agreed with SWIM that it would be better for SWIM not to rekindle an addiction to Benzo’s.

SWIM’s Dr also said that she has never actually prescribed Melatonin to anyone, and if SWIM is still interested in switching to this in a few months then she would refer SWIM to a psychiatrist for the prescription. Again SWIM found this quite strange as it seems to be sold at health shops in most countries.

Another thing SWIMs Dr said is that she does not think it strange that SWIM has been manic for the past week or two, and she says many people actually go this way until their mind adjusts to the lack of desired substance, kind of a self protection mechanism, which was kind of comforting to know that she is not alone in this. She is also quite stoked that her mind still has such strong coping mechanisms after all she has put it through & all she has been through (Drug abuse & PTSD but to name 2)



Below are some of the lyrics from the song “Breathing” by Lifehouse. SWIM is really digging this song at the moment, fits perfectly with the head space she is in.

I'm finding my way back to sanity again
Though I don't really know what I am gonna do when I get there
Take a breath and hold on tight
Spin around one more time
And gracefully fall back in the arms of grace

I am looking past the shadows of my mind into the truth
And I'm trying to identify the voices in my head
God, which one's you?
Let me feel one more time what it feels like to feel love
And break these calluses off of me one more time

[MizzWhizz]

this swim has not had any meth for six months and swim still thinks about it most of the day, wants it most of the day and misses it most of the day. swim does not say this to disencourage any other swims, but swims recognizes what is said that if a drug is missing, an alternative substanence is used to cover. this swim tried booze, the crap amphetamines they have where she lives and now swim is on temazepam or oxazepam or xanax or some other pill she doesnt even know the exact name of. swim is supposed to start rehab on tuesday but swim does not want to go. because the only reason this swim is not using meth is because where swim lives there is no meth. and where swim lives they the drug councellors dont know it, so swim feels misunderstood as they keep thinking swim is or was addicted to ampetamines. and the doctor gives swim no pills to make her feel better as he feels she will get addicted to whatever he gives her.
but swim wants to tell other meth swimmers that she is amazed and so proud that they can quit. for this swim only quit as she moved to a place where there is no meth (yet...)
it is taking swim a long time to put weight back on. she still looks a bit on the thin side. but swim eats well, exercises, listens to good music and found her self some hobbies.nobody knows what swim went thru, so swim cant talk to anyone. so swim is also very happy about this forum.

[Nicaine]

SWIM went to Dr today, and her Dr thinks she should hold off quitting Zopiclone (her sleeping pills) and cigarettes for awhile and she should just concentrate her energy on giving up meth.
SWIM agrees on the Zopiclone, but in his opinion nothing really makes giving up nicotine either easier or harder than it's gonna be... i.e. now is as good as any other time. He doesn't think it would affect SWIY's staying away from meth (*congrats* BTW!!), although in SWIM's experience getting past the first week is impossible without both serious determination + really wanting badly to quit.

SWIM rarely seemed to be lucky enough to have both those factors going at once, altho he did finally quit somehow. He was depressed at the time, which actually seemed to help (like he knew he was gonna feel crappy with or without nicotine, so might as well not use it).

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM is almost convinced that Guarana is the key to her elevated moods. She took e2 energy drink out of her diet for 24 hours and she felt like crap. Not depressed but her head was really foggy, very tired and unmotivated... She kept taking Taurine and had caffeine and sugar from alternate sources but her energy levels were at zero and her mood was... meh... um not up or down. SWIM just restocked on e2 drinks and is now full of energy, happy, motivated, a touch manic....

Notes below mention that Guarana should not be mixed with ephedrine..... this could also explain why SWIM's first 3 days without methamphetamine were not so pleasurable (apart from the obvious) as it generally takes 3 days for methamphetamine to leave the system and she was drinking e2s during this time..... SWIM is very interested to hear anybody elses experiences with Guarana.

Here's some info on Guarana from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana


Guarana or Guaraná (IPA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet): [gu̯a.ra.'na], [gu̯a.ɾa.'na] or [gu̯a.ɹa.'na]), Paullinia cupana (syn. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synonymy) P. crysan, P. sorbilis), is a shrub (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrub) or small tree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree) in the Sapindaceae (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapindaceae) family, native to Venezuela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuela) and northern Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil). The seed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed) of the Guaraná fruit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit) is a central nervous system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system)stimulant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant) with thermogenic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermogenics) and diuretic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diuretic) properties.
Guaraná plays an important role in Tupi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupi_people) and Guaraní (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaran%C3%AD) Brazilian culture. The name 'guaraná' is derived from the Tupi-Guarani (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupi-Guarani) word wara'ná. These tribes believed it to be magical, a cure for bowel complaints and a way to regain strength. They also tell the myth of a 'Divine Child' that was killed by a serpent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_%28symbolism%29) and whose eyes gave birth to this plant.

In addition to other chemicals, the guaraná plant contains caffeine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine) (sometimes called "guaranine"), theophylline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophylline), and theobromine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine). Water extracts of the guarana plant are central nervous system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_nervous_system)stimulants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulant) due to the caffeine content. Energy drink manufacturers typically add synthetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic) caffeine or caffeine derived from coffee decaffeination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decaffeination). Energy drinks containing guaraná include Pepsi's Josta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josta), Le-Natures Samurai Tea, PEP-G (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=PEP-G&action=edit), Golly Guaraná (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Golly_Guaran%C3%A1&action=edit), Socko (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Socko&action=edit), 180 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/180_%28drink%29), Rockstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_%28drink%29), AMP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMP_%28drink%29), V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_%28drink%29), SoBe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoBe) Adrenaline Rush, No Fear, and Energy, Glaceau VitaminWater: Energy, Guaraná Power (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guaran%C3%A1_Power&action=edit), Mountain Dew MDX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Dew_MDX), Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_%28drink%29), Crunk!!! Energy Drink (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Crunk%21%21%21_Energy_Drink&action=edit), Sprite 3G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_3G_%28drink%29), GURU 100% Natural Energy Drink, Von Dutch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Dutch_%28Drink%29),Full Throttle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Throttle_%28drink%29) and Pit Bull Energy Drink. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pit_Bull_Energy_Drink.&action=edit)Vores Øl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vores_%C3%98l) and Molson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molson) Kick are beers containing guaraná. Whilst they are not beverages, other foods containing guaraná are Pit Bull Energy Bar, (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pit_Bull_Energy_Bar%2C&action=edit)X-it (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=X-it&action=edit) mints and Jolt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolt) gum.

Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil) produces several brands of soft drink from guaraná extract that contain no added caffeine. Each differs greatly in flavour; some with very little natural guarana fruit taste. In Brazil, sales of guarana drinks are second only to cola (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cola) drinks. They are typically fizzy and sweet, with a very fruity aftertaste (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aftertaste). Most guaraná drinks are produced in Brazil and consumed there or in nearby countries, such as Paraguay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguay). Major brands include Guaraná Antarctica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaran%C3%A1_Antarctica), Guaraná Schin from Schincariol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schincariol) and Guaraná Brahma from AmBev (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmBev), Kuat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuat), and Guaraná Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaran%C3%A1_Jesus), a local Brazilian brand named for the druggist that formulated it.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-0) Many local producers also create drinks not for export.

Weight loss and health supplement

Studies involving guaraná show benefits to cognitive function. [2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-1) They have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_and_Drug_Administration) (FDA) or similar government agencies. In the United States, guaraná holds a GRAS-status, i.e. generally regarded as safe and must be labeled as not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.
The Journal of Human Nutrition and Dietetics published a study in June (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June)2001 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001) showing an average 11.2 pound weight loss in a group taking a mixture of yerba mate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate), guaraná and damiana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damiana), compared to an average 1 pound loss in a placebo group after 45 days.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-2)
A university study in Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil) of guaraná extract showed a platelet aggregation decrease of up to 37% of control values and a decrease of platelet thromboxane formation from arachidonic acid of up to 78% of control values. [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-3) This study may be significant to stroke and heart attack risk reduction because when excess thromboxane formation occurs, an arterial blood clot can develop, resulting in a heart attack or ischemic stroke.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-4)
A separate 1997 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997) study of guaraná's effects on the physical activity of rats showed increased memory retention and physical endurance when compared with a placebo.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-5)
Other studies have shown antioxidant, antibacterial, and fat cell reduction (when combined with conjugated linoleic acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugated_linoleic_acid)) properties in guaraná [7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-6)
Although side-effects of guaraná are rare, drugs.com recommends, "When considering the use of herbal supplements, consultation with a primary health care professional is advisable. Additionally, consultation with a practitioner trained in the uses of herbal/health supplements may be beneficial, and coordination of treatment among all health care providers involved may be advantageous". Drugs.com also advises not to mix guaraná with ephedrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephedrine).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarana#_note-7)

Composition

Guaraná seeds consist of mostly reddish vegetable fiber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_fiber) and resin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resin) with a small amount of oil and water.
From Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases [3] (http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/index.html):

Chemicals in: Paullinia cupana (alphabetical order, concentration given*)
Adenine seed: Ash seed 14,200 ppm; Caffeine seed 25,000 - 76,000 ppm Catechutannic-acid seed: Choline seed: D-catechin seed: Fat seed 30,000 ppm; Guanine seed: Guaranine seed: Hypoxanthine seed: Mucilage seed: Protein seed 98,600 ppm; Resin seed 70,000 ppm; Saponin seed: Starch seed 50,000 - 60,000 ppm Tannin seed 85,000 - 120,000 ppm Theobromine seed 330 ppm; Theophylline seed 570 ppm; Timbonine seed: Xanthine seed: : Duke, James A. 1992. Handbook of phytochemical constituents of GRAS herbs and other economic plants. Boca Raton, FL. CRC Press. (*) ppm = parts per million tr = trace Guarana contains different amounts, i.e., either less or more of the stimulants theobromine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobromine) and theophylline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theophylline) and other alkaloids, than other caffeine sources. To compare values on this table with those of other plant sources search Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases [4] (http://www.ars-grin.gov/duke/index.html).

[Forthesevenlakes]

Notes below mention that Guarana should not be mixed with ephedrine..... this could also explain why SWIM's first 3 days without methamphetamine were not so pleasurable (apart from the obvious) as it generally takes 3 days for methamphetamine to leave the system and she was drinking e2s during this time.....
Guarana, which has caffeine (AKA "guaranine"), theophylline, and theobromine in it, will interact synergistically with ephedrine and other stimulants, at least in SWIM's experience, producing a very energetic high. It's unpleasantness during the first few days of withdrawal may have not been due to its interactions with residual methamphetamine (although this is possible too), but possibly due to an interaction with hormones released by the adrenal gland and other glands.

Drugs of abuse such as heroin and cocaine (and possibly methamphetamine) sometimes create abnormal adrenal gland function which is masked during use by elevated levels of cortisol release at the same time. When the drug use is stopped, the altered glandular function may continue for a few days before becoming more normal. SWIM postulates that the altered function in this case would be an excess of hormones being released which trigger the production of epinephrine, which could lead to a manic state, or an edgy/anxious state as well.

Guarana could certainly have interactions with the excess epinephrine in the body during these first few days of withdrawal that could lead to very unpleasant feelings like those that SWIY was experiencing.

Interactions with residual methamphetamine in the system could be partially or totally the cause as well, SWIM is just giving an additional hypothesis to this interesting phenomena.

SWIM takes it that SWIY is doing pretty well? SWIM's definitely glad that SWIY has lasted so long, its not an easy fight, but he has confidence that SWIY will prevail, and she certainly seems to be!

[~lostgurl~]

Drugs of abuse such as heroin and cocaine (and possibly methamphetamine) sometimes create abnormal adrenal gland function which is masked during use by elevated levels of cortisol release at the same time. When the drug use is stopped, the altered glandular function may continue for a few days before becoming more normal. SWIM postulates that the altered function in this case would be an excess of hormones being released which trigger the production of epinephrine, which could lead to a manic state, or an edgy/anxious state as well.

This does seem like a much more likely reason for SWIMs initial anxiety and general discomfort. Do the adrenal glands always return to normal after a few days? Could they also be contributing to SWIMs current manic state? SWIMs anxiety definitely improved after 3-4 days..... but this manic feeling in quite out there and after removing Guarana from her diet she definitely lost a lot of the manic feelings, which have now returned..... Is this a normal effect of Guarana alone or could it be affecting her differently due to mehamphetamine withdrawal?

SWIM takes it that SWIY is doing pretty well? SWIM's definitely glad that SWIY has lasted so long, its not an easy fight, but he has confidence that SWIY will prevail, and she certainly seems to be!

Thanks for the kind words, SWIM is feeling quite positive right now, though earlier she was thinking how nice a puff would be, just a bit to get her up and doing much needed housework, but overall SWIM has been very relieved that she hasn't had the usual overwhelming cravings for meth. :)

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIM thinks they mostly return to normal after a few days, or perhaps the sharpest change in altered function occurs after a few days, although it could take longer to fully return to normal functioning. SWIM will look into this a bit more later, he's already late for work =P

[carousel]

Just pray it goes away - 'cause if it don't, you will be sucked from all desire to live.... you won't go outside... you won't have friends.... you'll literally just sit in a corner paranoid for the rest of your life. i hope it goes away for swiy, but as for lots of swims it wont, it hasn't.

[iFeaRNLoathiNg]

SWIM feels like giving up on giving up. 3 days is all it has been, 3 days with no methamphetamine, the anxiety is all swim can feel, its not about craving anymore, its not about wanting to get high or even about wanting to feel happy, its about feeling comfortable in her own skin.

She should have planned this better. She should have prepared something to calm her down. All she has is her prescription Zopiclone, 15mg at night, but SWIM is taking at least 22.5mg at night and at least 7.5mg during the day, she thinks she should have got another script for Klonapin, but it took her a long time to come off the benzo, so she doesn't want to be repeating that cycle. And she has been drinking e2 for its miniscule dose of Taurine (213mg) which helps a bit SWIM thinks but can see why recommended dose is so much higher, and she is not too hot on the caffeine combo either, that cannot be helping.

Should SWIM give up and try again when she is better prepared? If she keeps on keeping on or whatever the saying is, she is going to have some really nasty nights when her prescription runs out prematurely, cause right now thats about all shes got, and she is trying to be controlled, but all she is doing is staring at the clock and waiting for a time she thinks is ok to call bedtime so she can take 3 of the pills and sleep for a bit.




Swim thinks if swiy has gone 3 days with out meth, Swiy is on there way to recovery, Meth is a VARY VARY POWERFUL drug, the best thing to do is seperate swiy's self from anything or 1 thqat might lead to USE. Swim has quit before for acouple years, COLD TURKEY! swim said he wouldent of been able to do with out about a half-o of weed everyday. of corse its gonna feel terrible, mabey even lead to fit's of rage, but all the terrible feelings and uncoapable moments are worth it when swiy recovers. Swiy's body will give meny thanks when its finally over. (things that help....xanax Valium, Weed, Vicodin, basicly any downer. of corse swiy dont wanna replacer 1 addiction with another. GOTTA B CAREful) Hope it was helpful

[~lostgurl~]

Swim has quit before for acouple years, COLD TURKEY! swim said he wouldent of been able to do with out about a half-o of weed everyday. of corse its gonna feel terrible, mabey even lead to fit's of rage, but all the terrible feelings and uncoapable moments are worth it when swiy recovers. Swiy's body will give meny thanks when its finally over.

How long did it take for SWIY to feel better? To feel good? How was it worth it? How did SWIY's body say thanks? Why did did SWIY return to meth after 2 years clean if it was good to be clean?

SWIY might like to read the entire post too as SWIM has now been free of meth for 1 month, and although the worst of it should be over SWIM has found the past month easy (except for the first 3-4 days) but can see how things are going to get a lot harder now that she realises she has to change everything else in her life too. SWIM will write more on this later, but it seems like the real battle hasn't even begun yet.

[iFeaRNLoathiNg]

well, swim had a child so that was on his mind and he'd have to say it took about 2 weeks of agoney. Swim says it was worth it because of the mind and body clairity it brung, About the body saying thanks Dosent swiy's body feel alot better ????(cleaner, healthier and more Weight)And swim said that the last question really hit home, and swim would say for the M,,,.,.One...Y, but that would be a lie. mabey because somthing was missing in his life, The sort of power that came with c';';;o';';o';';kin.....no thats not it either....Swim guesses there is no reason, and because of that Swim is gonna stop once agien after recent batch is gone.witch will be tonight swim will post in this everyday about how he feels and if he is suceeding or not.

(thats kinda crazy, swiy can't know how bad that last ? really hit swim)

[iFeaRNLoathiNg]

started new thread "SWIM'S Reality with METH"

[~lostgurl~]

33 days (and counting) without meth. SWIM is feeling ok, but not as good as she was feeling. SWIM went to her drug addiction counsellor on Monday, it was her 3rd session with her and for once SWIM didn't have all the answers, infact she had none of the answers and this scared the fuck out of SWIM! SWIM has given up meth - yes - but her life is not changing for the better. SWIM knows it is not going to change for the better unless SWIM makes the changes and does something different, instead of just thinking about it.

SWIMS counsellor said if SWIM can't put routine back into her life by herself then her suggestion is residential rehab. "AARRGGGHHH" SWIM screams "NO!NO!NO! No rebab! I can do it! I can make the changes!"

But as SWIM drives home from the counselling session SWIM bursts into tears because she really doesn't think she can do it, and if she can't, then she knows that she really must go to rehab and SWIM feels too scared to go to rehab. Rehab is about 5 hours from where SWIM lives. She will not be allowed to take her sleeping pills (Zopiclone), she will have to share a room with others, she will have to get up every morning, she will have no computer, no junk food, she will have to attend meetings and group therapy and do designated jobs, all at times decided by someone else and not by SWIM. And it is a 10 week program. 10 FRIGGIN WEEKS without the comfort of home, with real people instead of her computer as company, with nothing to help her sleep....... this is so far out of SWIM's comfort zone it does not even seem like an option in SWIM's mind.

Realising all this, just made SWIM cry harder, and she cried for hours and truly felt like a lost lil gurl again. Why is routine so unfathomable to SWIM? How can a bunch of small changes in SWIM's life be so hard to accomplish?

To avoid rehab SWIM's counsellor (and her mum who is in agreement with her counsellor) have given her about a month to make the following changes in her life:
*Get up, out of bed and dressed every morning.
*Half an hour of exercise every day
*Half an hour of gardening every fine day
*Move her computer to a different room so that SWIM can't sit in bed at her computer.
*Cook healthy meals for herself and eat them at the dining room table, and to stop eating junkfood whenever she is bored.
*Do dishes every day
*Do laundry as soon as there is enough for a load
*No sleeping during the day

OK, now this might seem easy to most people out there reading this, and it should be easy, but SWIM knows it wont be easy for her.

One thing that SWIM knows is not helping her at all is her addiction to her sleeping pills, especially in combination with SWIMs new found taste for energy drinks. These are not taken together (for the most part) but the caffeine in the drinks is causing her body to kick out against the pills when she tries to go to sleep, so she is taking more pills to go to sleep and it is taking her all day to recover from them and wake up properly. SWIM has taken 60 Zopiclone in 15 days, ocassionally she is taking them for anxiety, but mostly to sleep. Even when SWIM was taking less Zopiclone she could feel the effects well into the following afternoon. She would like to quit taking them altogether but she has been on them for 3.5 years so that alone is pretty difficult.

SWIM has rarely felt manic over the past week, and when she has it has been after sunset. She is hoping that if she can stop taking her sleeping pills that maybe she will feel manic a lot more as well as have energy during the day to do the normal things people are supposed to do.

Until then she has tried to make a few changes. She went grocery shopping and bought a whole lot of food that has to be prepared and cooked, this was last night though so SWIM hasn't actually done any cooking yet. She has started to make smoothies for herself every day using fresh fruit, frozen berries, yoghurt, protein powder and ice cubes. This evening she plans to make soup with a chicken and a whole bunch of vegies then freeze portions for easy & healthy meals. She planned to start exercising but hasn't started yet and she has definitely not put her computer in another room! (yes SWIM has an addiction to her computer too) And SWIM's head is too foggy from pills to do anything other than sleep and browse her computer during the the day. It's a vicious circle.

SWIM is not sure if this makes a lot of sense, or if anyone out there can relate to what she is feeling, but SWIM does know that so far quitting meth has been easy and it is about to become hard. SWIM wants to change but is scared of change also, and all the emotions SWIM has blocked over the past couple of years with her meth use are all flooding back to her now. She is so used to taking something to feel normal, taking something to feel good, taking something to give her energy, taking something to put her to sleep, and SWIM is so used to not having to deal with other people and their expectations or even just socially. She just wants to take some more pills and curl up in a ball and go to sleep, block out all the changes, block out all the expectations, block out all the fears and insecurities...... block it all out, everything, even the dreams and hopes SWIM wants to block out and just not have to deal with anything or anyone, let alone everything and everyone!

[~lostgurl~]

8 weeks tomorrow...... swim hasn't even thought about meth in awhile, and this still seems weird to her...... swim did go a bit overboard on the sleeping pills and cigarettes to compensate though. She hasn't been sleeping much and has found the last few weeks especially difficult because of this. Last night she had here first good sleep in awhile, at night her legs are just kicking out, actually this is during the day too but it doesn't bother her during the day...... night time has been hell though and swims sleeping pills were not cutting it, they would make her very tired and sleepy but her body would not stop moving even with very large doses so swim is not taking her sleeping pills recreationally anymore, she is back down to 2 per night (Zopiclone that is) and has been prescribed with 1mg Melatonin which seems quite a low dose compared with other members on this boards experiences with Melatonin. swim is still taking Taurine, but has given up on most of the other vitamin/mineral supplements that she got. swim has also been prescribed with Clonadine to calm her body down (2 X 25mcg) and she thinks this is what helped her to sleep so well last night, but its still pretty hard to figure out what is doing what for her.

swim has also decided to give rehab a go, which she is not looking forward to at all but she thinks it can't hurt, and she wants to use every resource available to her to give recovery her best shot. there is a month wait still on this, so things could change, but at the moment this is her plan. swim also plans to taper off of her sleeping pills over the next month and give up cigarettes when she enters rehab.

swims mood is definitely not manic anymore, and although her mood has been quite low at times it hasn't progressed into fullblown depression which she is thankful for, she has been very emotional though, crying at the drop of a hat, and very moody but this is all to be expected and swim thinks she has gotten off pretty lightly as far as mood disturbences go.

Sleep disturbances, lack of motivation and low energy seem to be swims biggest issues with sleep being her number one concern at the moment. Things can only get better though and swim is feeling positive about her future which is something she has not felt positive about for a very long time.

[Freaky]

Lostgurl - I just wanted to tell SWIY well done:p on quitting the Meth, and wondered how you are now?

SWIM can sympathise with you entirely about how hard simple everyday tasks can become without meth, once your body has got used to having it, and that dam fog in brain doesn't let ya concentrate, a friend told me it makes them feel spaced out and dizzy too, and that was without supplements, so think this is just a side-effect of going without meth and not related too much to supplements. These side effects are what is stoppiing my friend from totally quitting, as they work and cannot afford to loose their job because they can't get up in a morning, if you have any tips i could pass on for someone trying to quit whilst working, it'd be appreciated, as their job is the only stability left in their life.

I know when my friend felt ill in the past, Protein shakes really made them feel a whole lot better, i think it's primarily due to the amino acids they add to them, which are depleted when SWIY has been using meth and not eating a balanced diet, or in some cases anything at all.

It's people like SWIY who give other members hope and insight that they too can get rid of it from their life;)

[~lostgurl~]

Swim’s plans for rehab have been delayed for a few months as swim’s psychiatrist wants her to go back on bipolar meds, and the rehabs here are not medical facilities so swim needs to be stabilised on these meds before she is accepted. Kind of disappointing, but swim has been fully aware of her dramatic mood swings over the past 3 months, she was very manic for quite awhile after quitting meth and over the past few weeks she has sunk into a depression that has taken away her motivation for almost everything including giving up meth.

Being bored and unmotivated to do anything led to swim deciding to try other stimulants, first Ritalin which gave her a nice break from the boredom, then a week later Duromine which didn’t do much as far as getting a buzz, but made swim want to get high and when she went to get some more Ritalin the girl was all out and only had methamphetamine and swim thought what the hell.

Swim regrets this decision in some ways but in some ways she doesn’t. Its kind of confusing as swim didn’t choose to use again because of craving, but because life has just been so boring without it. How long does it really take to feel normal after quitting meth? Some people say 3 months others say 6 months, swim has a friend who abstained for a year and just got sick of trying to be happy without it. How long does one wait? How can a person ever feel satisfied with “normal” firing of neurotransmitters after experiencing increased firing for so long? The feeling is never going to be as good. But will it ever even be what it was before meth use? Will it ever even be normal again? Was it even normal to begin with or is this why swim has looked for happiness in such a wide range of drugs?

Swim still has no cravings for meth, but then that depends on the definition of craving. Swim hopes the meds she starts taking over the next few months help even her mood out enough to believe that there is happiness after meth. Only time will tell I guess.

Freaky - thanks for the kind words, unfortunately swim doesn't have any good advice right now but swim hopes your friend has found something that works for him.

[Nicaine]

Swim regrets this decision in some ways but in some ways she doesn’t. Its kind of confusing as swim didn’t choose to use again because of craving, but because life has just been so boring without it. How long does it really take to feel normal after quitting meth?
What did SWIY go out of her way to do that was interesting? Or did she sit around & wait for something exciting to pound on the door & demand entrance? Just curious...

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM admits she didn't do a lot. She wasn't waiting for something exciting to come pounding on her door, but she was hoping that she would feel some kind desire to do something. It's hard to motivate yourself to do something that you feel no desire to do.

SWIM has spent a bit of time with her nephews and niece, she has been swimming a few times and gone for walks by the river. She's not the social bunny she used to be though and she gets anxiety when she spends a lot of time with people. SWIM has also felt very tired over the past few months, but has not been sleeping well at all and she thinks this has contributed to her lack of motivation to do anything physical or even get out of the house. If SWIY has any tips swim would love to hear them.

[Nicaine]

SWIM admits she didn't do a lot. She wasn't waiting for something exciting to come pounding on her door, but she was hoping that she would feel some kind desire to do something. It's hard to motivate yourself to do something that you feel no desire to do.

SWIM has spent a bit of time with her nephews and niece, she has been swimming a few times and gone for walks by the river. She's not the social bunny she used to be though and she gets anxiety when she spends a lot of time with people. SWIM has also felt very tired over the past few months, but has not been sleeping well at all and she thinks this has contributed to her lack of motivation to do anything physical or even get out of the house. If SWIY has any tips swim would love to hear them.
Unfortunately SWIM doesn't have the vaguest clue... lack of motivation/interest (in the absence of drugs) is probably his biggest issue as well. SWIY is probably quite busy compared to SWIM in fact... he just sits around doing nothing most of the time, and literally has no friends or even casual acquaintances offline. He does get out of the house for grocery shopping, but that's pretty much the only time he ever sets foot outdoors (edit -- that and seeing his doctor once every 2-3 months for med refills, which happens to be scheduled for tomorrow... quite a big day for SWIM, taking the bus downtown & everything :rolleyes: ).

[Broshious]

First off SWIM would like to say how proud he is that SWIY has been able to quit. SWIM has his own problem with addiction and even though the substance is far less addicting than Meth he still can't even make himself quit so SWIY should give herself more credit.

Second while SWIM hasn't had to deal with recovering from addiction he has had depression/anxiety problems his whole life and he thinks some of the strategies that helped him might work for SWIY as well. You mentioned trying to exercise and SWIM can't stress enough that you should really try and get on that. It helps IMMENSELY. SWIY might even come to love it like SWIM has. Trying to make sure SWIY gets up early helps a lot too. Try and get outside and get some sun it always seems to make SWIMs day much better. They sell SAD(Seasonal Affective Disorder) lights that are supposed to simulate sunlight. Not sure if they work that well but it might be worth a shot. Getting a regular sleeping pattern would be a great help too. Set a bed time and work your ass off to make sure you get to sleep then. SWIM bought some hypnosis CDs online that have a great relaxtion technique that helps SWIM get to sleep so you could look into that. Along with getting to bed try and cut out all stimulants. It'll be hard but they will not help SWIY at all. Picking up a hobby couldn't hurt either. SWIM bought himself some golf clubs and went to the range 3 days a week. Anything that will allow SWIY to see actually progress is a good thing. Well that's about all SWIM can think of right now. Good luck and know we're all rooting for you.

[pankreeas]

It's always hard reading these posts.. Swim is not religious but this deserves dropping to knees for prayer. All the best in treatment. Tell swiy: Just keep pushing it... it will push back, but you'll get stronger... the you can knock it's ass out.

[~lostgurl~]

Thanks Broshious and Pankreeas, SWIM appresicates the kind words, and thanks for the advice Broshious, SWIM can always use that! She is trying to go to bed earlier, but finds it much easier to sleep during the day than at night. She got down to half a sleeping pill but over the past week has upped it a bit again. Sun makes swim feel better too, and she has a huge garden that needs to be taken care of so she could kill two birds with one stone and get exercise and sun at the same time.... motivating herself to this is another story though.

[sqyttles]

SWIM recommends getting some l-deprenyl from a doctor or an India pharm to take for the couple days after using meth. It normalizes dopamine and noradrenaline production. Plus, it is a neuroprotectant; some people take it before Ecstasy to reduce neurotoxicity.

[~lostgurl~]

Thought for the day: The biggest issue for my girl has been switching her mind set from instant gratification to long term satisfaction. It's so hard to do things because they will make your life better in the long term when you are used to doing things that make you feel great instantly. Having people in your life that really care and are really proud of the changes you have made really helps.

What is also important is not beating yourself up if you slip and use again. It is a lapse not a relapse. So many people slip up and use then because of the guilt they think they are a fuck up so they keep using. Just because you lapse doesn't mean you have to relapse. Refocus and get back on track. Lapses could happen for the rest of your life but as long as you see them for what they are, a normal part of addiction and a normal part of recovery, then you can stay on track and not let it affect your long term goals.

[Lobsang]

The biggest issue for my girl has been switching her mind set from instant gratification to long term satisfaction.


Well always remember these words.

"Life is like a cafeteria, you can have anything you want. Don't take your desserts first"

Damn I wish I had listened to those words sometimes...

Time--


Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way.
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way.

Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain.
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you.
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again.
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time.
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say.
(Pink Floyd--Time)

[cyndi]

This is an excellent thread and swim relates totally. Yeah she gave up meth but got hooked on ambien right after rehab. It also got to where she couldn't wait till it was time for ambien at night. That isn't healthy she guesses. Also just like swiy sat in the house and thought ok I will sit here alone but hey she isn't tweaking. Anyway yeah a relapse waiting to happen and did. Then she would go weeks off meth, get meth and feel horrible about it and well it just seems like a nonending cycle. She has a ton of personal issues that doesn't help and not a very supportive environment but knows she has to correct the situation somehow. She doesn't want to use but oh is feeling weak today. It will pass....

[~lostgurl~]

Hey Cyndi, sorry to hear you are down and craving, as you said, it will pass, though sometimes it seems to take forever. SWIM has been really "good" this year and she has only had a couple of lapses with her drug use, but she has again become addicted to some prescribed medications which she is now tapering off. It does feel like a never ending cycle, just keep reminding yourself why you are trying to stay clean (and make sure you have good reasons!) to keep you motivated to follow through. I hope tomorrow is better for you.

[cyndi]

I am so glad to hear a success story:) Yes if swim wants a family, job, and a home she better stay clean or those things go away. Very good reasons. Today is eh but not as bad as yesterday.

[stressless]

Hi there,
SWIM is a newbie but felt compelled to reach out and tell her story if it could help at all. . . . . .

SWIM was addicted to crystal meth for 2 years and it started to eat away her body and her life. It stops your ability to eat properly, sleep properly and think clearly. You don't see it at the time, but when you look back (clean) you are shocked a how you could live that way.

SWIM suffers from anxiety and depression, so at the time it was an escape for her from my head - but after a while it just compounded her problems - she was not on medication at the time, but later prescribed Effexor when she came of meth.

To cut a long story short the only thing that made her give it up was almost losing everyone she cared about: her family and her husband.

There is hope SWIM is now 3 years clean still married and she has a wonderful 2 year old son. Every time she looks at her boy he reminds her to keep on the straight and narrow and reminds her there is soooooo much more to life.

[Cakes]

We had a few thoughts on the process SWIM had to deal with:

She just wants to take some more pills and curl up in a ball and go to sleep, block out all the changes, block out all the expectations, block out all the fears and insecurities...... block it all out, everything, even the dreams and hopes SWIM wants to block out and just not have to deal with anything or anyone, let alone everything and everyone!

SWIM ^was saying^ how she had just been given a list of physical acts her mother expected her to perform. I think SWIM performed them but it seems it was a bit too early because her next check in shows us this:

swim did go a bit overboard on the sleeping pills and cigarettes to compensate though. She hasn't been sleeping much and has found the last few weeks especially difficult because of this.

SWIM might have been happier if she had taken more time to rest. She was taking the supplements and waiting for her body to resume normal production levels<<this wasn't a fun time physically and to sleep through it doesn't seem a bad idea. Also, sleeping/low activity levels might help SWIM to recover reserves/heal damage faster due to the chems can be not burned up by exercise.

SWIM's next check-in shows us this:
SWIM admits she didn't do (try) a lot. She wasn't waiting (expecting) for something exciting to come pounding on her door, but she was hoping that she would feel some kind desire to do something. It's hard to motivate yourself to do something that you feel no desire to do.If SWIM is sleeping it off, eventually she will wake hungry and she will WANT to do something>>eat. so if she goes back to sleep after that, okay. One day on her way back to bed she might feel like looking at her computer..okay. GOOD. and that is how SWIM will get her life back. what she wants she will do. and fuck the rest.

[insomnizombie]

don't really have to much substance to add but just wanted to say i can relate to almost everything you've said lostgurl. i can go a couple weeks without using and its like right when the physical discomfort starts to go away (lethargy, head fog etc.) i fuck up out of sheer boredom/ need of something to desire. I think we just need to find some sort of healthy replacement cause i'm like you where when i quit i find myself just wasting away in bed, on the comp, eating junk food, smokeing cigs, avoiding people and anything even slightly axiety inducing (funny cause i remember barely being able to function on meth cause of the anxiety it caused, now i'm barely able to function without it for the same reason!). Of course theres a reason i live that way when off it its not cause i like the lifestyle its cause i litteraly have nothing inside pushing me to do anything, i become sucked dry of all passion motivation and desire. I cant stand feeling like i'm existing just to exist and the temptation to use a substance that fills one with life (while taking it), passion, and all those things just becomes overwhelming. Of course with each use that magic it fills one with gets dissapointingly less and less (i guess all drugs are similar in that way)

[chillinwill]

don't really have to much substance to add but just wanted to say i can relate to almost everything you've said lostgurl. i can go a couple weeks without using and its like right when the physical discomfort starts to go away (lethargy, head fog etc.) i fuck up out of sheer boredom/ need of something to desire. I think we just need to find some sort of healthy replacement cause i'm like you where when i quit i find myself just wasting away in bed, on the comp, eating junk food, smokeing cigs, avoiding people and anything even slightly axiety inducing (funny cause i remember barely being able to function on meth cause of the anxiety it caused, now i'm barely able to function without it for the same reason!). Of course theres a reason i live that way when off meth its not cause i like the lifestyle its cause i litteraly have nothing inside pushing me to do anything, i become sucked dry of all passion motivation and desire. I cant stand feeling like i'm existing just to exist and the temptation to use a substance that fills one with life (while taking it), passion, and all those things just becomes overwhelming. Of course with each use that magic it fills one with gets dissapointingly less and less (i guess all drugs are similar in that way)

please remember to SWIM or something similar as to avoid self-incrimination

[insomnizombie]

yeah whoops how do you edit your post?

[~lostgurl~]

If you rewrite it I will edit it for you. Once you become a silver member you will be able to edit them yourself.