Tapering off PK's before classes

[korky8097]

Hey guys,
Over this past summer Swim has been slightly overdoing the opiates. He has always loved them and would always endulge in dilaudids when they were around, as well as many other pain killers including weaker oxycodone/contins. Swims favorite meathod of ingestion would be snorting, and have found himself in situations where he would experience mild to moderate withdrawl over the past year, like when there would be no pain killers in town. Usually he would just have to tough it out, and would make do, sometimes with the help of valium (no longer has). This time he fears he has been to caught up in the fun to realize how soon it is until he has to start with classes again, and is looking to clean up a bit before.

Swim isnt actually planning on completely staying away from painkillers, because he really does enjoy them, he just needs to controll himself, such as just on weekends, but for a few weeks he just wants to taper down and be free of painkillers when he has class, then maintain for a few more weeks or months, then enjoy occasionally under a more watchful eye from his good friend. This friend has scripts for a wide variety of painkillers (legitimate, uses them for football injuries,they endulge with him occasionally, non-dealer though). Swim beleives the friend will be his coach and also provide swim something in order to taper. My main question is how fast should swim taper? He has read up on here a bit but mainly finds people looking for smack advice or more advanced addictions, swim has an only moderate (he thinks) addiction and is looking to taper over 2 weeks or so just to help out. He will explain why this addiction he is in is worse than before though.

Up until 4 or so weeks ago, railing has been the furthest swim would go. Usually daily but would take breaks because he knows where he has been in the past, and is a pretty strongwilled individual with not much of an addictive personality. But then the needle was introduced to him. At first weekly, at about 8-12mg of dilaudid, with a daily habit of snorting 4mg in days between injections in an attempt to keep himself in controll yet still enjoy himself. Then one day, swim obtained a few rigs of his own (before he injected with a friend who kept him from doing it alot, ex junkie). He started iving his snorted doses every day for a few weeks, then decided it needed to end. He was able to stop booting dilaudids with some minor withdrawl. Mainly just a depressed feeling and some sense of hopelessness amung the minor cold sweats ect. But recently he started occasionally IVing again, rarely though. As if now he is withdrawling moderatly, curbing wds with tylenol 3. (unable to get anything better for a few days).

He is getting fed up with the needle, things had been better before he tried it, and now its just that much more weight on his sholders. Mainly all he wants is a clear, non-hazey head during classes. He has much pressure on him as a gifted individual, and truely does want to suceed in life. These opiates just make it more challenging.


Sorry about the rant, swim hasnt really had anyone to discuss this with (friends dont know about the needle). He is just looking for some suggestions on tapering in a 2-3 week time. If yall need to know what opiates swim will have access to in this process, just ask. Swim will be reading more and more on this area of the site, and is really just wanting to vent as he hasnt told his other friends. He will be right when his coach gets back from football training camp, as it is long overdue, but mainly just wish me luck and anything you have to say will be very very helpful.

[Forthesevenlakes]

if its only a moderate addiction, swiy will probably do well to taper the first week to week and a half, and use the past 10 days or so to quit cold turkey. swim would say to begin by cutting out the first opiate dose of the day. for him that would be the best rush of the day, and he would want to mantain the high all day after that...so its important to eliminate that one. stick to administering opiates once a day if possible..using the lowest dose that will curb the withdrawals. 30-60 mg of codeine should do it (swim thinks). also during this time get some robotussin cough gels and take maybe 30 mg twice a day. this will help with the withdrawals and lower swiy's opioid tolerance (at least it has been shown to do so in lab animals...may not be the same in humans but swim can attest to the dxm helping). also get some loperamide (immodium) which will help with the stomach problems and diarrhea if swiy is getting those even after taking the codeine. be sure to get adequate nutrition and exercise during this time! try to lower to the opiate dose each day, too. maybe have a trusted friend, girlfriend or whoever give swiy his opiates each day to make sure he doesnt cheat!

before cutting everything out at the end of this period, make sure to get some good books, movies, videogames, etc to entertain swiy because he probably wont want to move around much for a couple days.

then comes the day to cut everything out! having friends around to drive swiy places and take his mind off the withdrawals helps too. try to make sure that during days 2-4 of cold turkey, swiy doesnt have to do anything too strenuous, try to get off work if possible. swiy may want to take more dxm during this time, not enough to trip off of, but it helps keep the physical pain down. use loperamide whenever necessary. for sleeping, swim found that drinking a few shots often helps, but others may feel differently. a benzo or some soma can also help bring sleep, but dont rely on them too much because a benzo addiction is a much worse habit to kick. try to stay mentally and physically active during this time, it will help swiy alot and take his mind off things too. plus it will help to replenish the natural endorphins, whose lack is why swiy may well feel hopeless or depressed during withdrawal. even though swiy may not feel like eating, force swiyself to. also, stay away from stimulants during this time, in swims experience, they always made him feel worse during a kick. the good news is that after day 4 or so, swiy will start to feel better, and by day 10, the physical part should be over.

the psychological part is trickier and will last longer, but swim has to go. he'll type more about this when he has time. other people who have kicked painkillers should contribute as they see fit.

swim admires swiKorky's resolve to kick for this reason. good luck, pm me if you need any other advice.

[korky8097]

thank you for all your help, the only minor thing that swim might need to tweak is that he takes adderall for ADD, he thinks he will lower his doses. Will report back

[Forthesevenlakes]

Originally Posted by korky8097

thank you for all your help, the only minor thing that swim might need to tweak is that he takes adderall for ADD, he thinks he will lower his doses. Will report back

good idea. the lab rats swim talked to said they took ephedrine and adderall at diffrent times for energy during a kick, and it was even speedier than usual and very unpleasant. plus they were sweating already due to the withdrawals and the effects of the stimulants made them sweat more, creating a risk of dehydration! no fun at all there.

[VincentVan]

Dear Korky
even if I never felt like I had any intelligent suggestions for you I have been following your thread with interest and involvement. SWIM have been loving and fighting opiates , of the more illegal and powerful kinds, for decades and he has only recently managed to shake off his burdensome chains (he wonders for how long).
Because of the things you write and the substances you mention I now wonder if it has ever occurred to you that your addiction symptoms may be more of a psychosomatic nature than physical; and that possibly a changement of scenery, faces and habits could turn out to be more beneficial in fighting off those symptoms than any chemical substance would ever prove to be.
I know it´s kind of irritating to hear this kind of things, it irritated me too, we all think that we know exactly what we need and we generally do; but I would suggest you not to dismiss this possibility out of hand; have you really tried to simply get away from it all?
Best of luck.

VV.

[Forthesevenlakes]

hm, vincentvan has a point..and from swim's experience his advice is usually quite wise.

but going to classes kind of precludes getting away, swim is guessing. maybe spend more time hanging out with non-users til swiy is comfortable that he can resist doing opiates with them?

also, if the kick fails for whatever reason, perhaps swiy should look into suboxone if its available. the antagonist effect should block other opiates in the event that swim slips up, plus itd block the withdrawals. the drawback is that swiy would eventually have to kick THAT, but swim hears that the kick from suboxone isnt that bad.

and btw vincentvan, swim has absolute confidence in swiys ability to shake off those chains of addiction. hes read swiys posts and believes that swiy is stronger than he realizes.

[VincentVan]

Yes; as Forthesevenlakes rightly says if SWIY must follow the classes and can´t slip away for a week or so, then he´s going to need some pharmaceutical help and suboxone is surely one of the best possible choices.
Shame; because in SWIY´s case, while surely effective, I think it´s a bit of an overkill.
I have never tried suboxone as, while I am aware that it is a more modern and advanced alternative to methadone, SWIM preferred to stick with something that he knew well from previous detoxings and was sure that would be effective for him.
If you´re going to choose one of these options( i.e. subox. or methadone ) then let us know it.
SWIM has a good experience in methadone detoxing aquired both on himself and on some friends, and if you wish he could suggest you a tapering off schedule that I´m confident you will fil find appropriate.
But Forthesevenlakes is right: subox is more modern and probably better in some aspect.
If you´re gonna choose this option then Forthesevenlakes , or some other member who has tried it will surely have some good tips and suggestions for you.
And last: if you ´re forced to remain in the the same environment that you associate with being stoned , it´s vital that you avoid to see the "friends" with whom you usually take drugs. There is no need to make it even harder for yourself; and just a second off guard and all the hard work of many hard days will be undone.
Well, congratulations for your resolve Korky, you´re a brave man.
You deserve all possible luck.
Let us know how you´re managing your fight; first of all because we care, and secondly because your experience may be an inspiration for other people who would like to quit but are unsure if they can make it.
Maybe you can show them that it´s doable.

VV.

"Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes.
To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondre londes.
( Chaucer. - "The Canterbury Tales."-)

[Forthesevenlakes]

sage advice as always, vincentvan!

the suboxone may be a bit of overkill, swim was thinking worst-case scenario the suboxone would work. but really if swim gets the physical part over before classes it should be fine. do keep us posted though, people are inspired by some of these recovery threads, believe it or not!

[korky8097]

vincent van: Swim agrees completely that it is mainly mental, he has only had minor physical symptoms, and could have most likely just gone cold turkey and been ok. But he wanted to make his state of mind during classes as un-chaotic as possible, really he just wanted to minimize symptoms as much as possible. Swim has gotten away from his old friend whom taught him how to shoot up, and only visits him very rarely (not to shoot or anything, he is actually trying to taper as well). Swim still enjoys opiates, but only when he is with his old buddy whom he has been getting messed up with forever, doesnt know swim has shot up, but still just a good person to enjoy a night of opiates with. Which all works out well because he doesnt get to see his good friend often enough to really feed an addiction just off their nights of nodding.

Swim is currently almost completely off daily pk's, and is feeling much better, he thanks vincent and forthesevenlakes for all the help and support, and he recommends using opiates in this pattern or at least non-daily to all, really isn't worth it getting fucked up 24/7 on pk's for extended periods of time he has found. Swim is also very glad he started to moderate his use when he did, who knows what his arms would look like soon if he hadn't. Thanks again

[Forthesevenlakes]

excellent to hear swiy is doing well!

thats one of the things about tapering if its done correctly, it helps make sure that one's life doesnt have to stop for a week while one adjusts to the change. but it takes alot of resilience and strength to stick to tapering off, to be certain. swim finds that the hardest part isnt so much the physical withdrawal when stopping, but the psychological urge to rationalize daily use after one has stopped (swim thinks vincentvan posted something about a swim saying the same thing). but once classes start, just focus on those, and other activities that keep swiy happy and interested that dont involve opiates, that will help remove boredom which is one of the major temptations to starting up again!

[korky8097]

Swim is still doing much better, has cut his use down to every few days. He highly recommends kratom, as it sincerely helped him. When he first tried it, he didnt even think about other painkillers for a few days.

[Forthesevenlakes]

interesting. swim is going to look into kratom. he has been doing better as well, but still uses frequently. just not every day! if kratom can stop the desire to do pk's, that would be a godsend though because the physical addiction is easy to overcome...its the mental part thats tough. does swiy find that kratom mostly stimulates him, or does it provide a sedation even with opiate tolerance?