Kicking opiates with laughing gas/nitrous oxide and other things

[BlackCook]

I just wanted to tell something which was tried and what did work to kick off opiates.

1.) When he was young, SWIM was on h for years and like almost all his friends a polytoximaniac.
SWIM did not want to be on h anymore, so he got himself a few grams of speed and weed and made a trip over 5 days where he didnt get any sleep at all.
Because of the speed he didnt realize the symptons of the withdrawal and after the speedtrip was gone he fell into sleep allmost instantly.
When SWIM woke up, he was feeling very tired and his back was aching, but he won the fight against the h.
He did smoke a lot of weed then in order to sleep the next days, but he was free and gone from h.

2.) A few years later, SWIM did try h again, because "it cant be that bad if SWIM got rid of it before" and so SWIM was back on it again.
Meanwhile, SWIM did not take any other drugs anymore, so the thing with the speed and the weed was not his thing.
So he was looking for others methods (he didnt know kratom at this point) and he found N2O.
SWIM bought about 200 Capsules of N2O and, back at home, began to dose himself down. Normally, when he tried to dose himself down, he wasnt able to do this, because he couldnt sleep, his legs were restless, his back was aching and so on.
But then everytime he got problems with this, he took N2O.
He had to take about 5-10 capsules and after this everything was ok and he could go to sleep.
He had to take the opiates in the late evening, in order to get to sleep and when he had withdrawals during the day, he took the N2O.
With this method, SWIM was able to kick of H again...

Just wanted to tell it, perhaps someone can use this...

[robin_himself]

the first methode wouldn't work for to many people, and the real danger in it is that one can get really really paranoid because of the withdraw symptoms of the H and on top of that the paranoia and restlesness that comes from the speed + some people tend to get a little paranoid on weed. So that's a fair amount of paranoia on ones plate.

I didn't get the n2o methode.... everytime you felt withdraw symptoms you started to take laughing gas? so you took capsules nonstop for a couple of days?

[Forthesevenlakes]

i didnt fully understand this either. it seems like swiy would be busting whippits nonstop for days...and i'm not even sure pharmacologically how this would alleviate the withdrawals, except that n2o is a general anasthetic, so maybe it would help with the joint and muscle aches.

[BlackCook]

nono, thats not right!
you go down with the h every day... but faster than normal.. and everytime you get withdrawals because of going down that fast, you take laughing gas against them...
works very well...

[Micklemouse]

My main concern with this method, other than the potential to hurt oneself trying to crack a cap while rattling, is the damage being done to one's ability to metabolise vitamin B with repeated use of nitrous even over a relatively short period of time, leading to all sorts of nasty complications...

From BMJ 2004;328:1364-1365 (5 June), doi:10.1136/bmj.328.7452.1364

Nitrous oxide can interfere with the metabolism of vitamin B-12 and can cause spinal cord degeneration.1 2 The mechanism of neuropathology with nitrous oxide is due to inactivation of vitamin B-12, which leads to impaired methionine synthesis. The cobalt atom in vitamin B-12 donates two electrons to nitrous oxide1:

This is followed by the rapid reaction of Co3+ with Co+ resulting in the failure of methylation of basic proteins in myelin sheaths3:


Polyneuropathy and spinal cord degeneration are the most common neurological manifestations of vitamin B-12 deficiency. The diagnosis is made clinically and by finding a decreased serum vitamin B-12 concentration. (Often there is no macrocytosis on the blood film, as in this case). The typical magnetic resonance imaging findings show a typical dorsal cervical cord lesion.4
Reports describing spinal cord degeneration of the cord after treatment with nitrous oxide have generally been attributed it to prolonged exposure to the gas and poor nutrition.5 6 Toxicity related to the prolonged intermittent exposure of low concentrations of nitrous oxide has been described in experimental animals.7 8

it seems likely that, once methionine synthase activity is inhibited, it will remain so for days. (Clinical Aspects of the Interaction Between Nitrous Oxide and Vitamin B12" (1987), Br. J. Anaesth. 59: 3-13. Nunn)

You can figure for somewhere in the region of 72 hours before vitamin b can be adequately and safely metabolised again.

Given that vitamin b in all it's many forms is on the of the most useful and essential vitamins, playing it's part in mood, digestion, healing, eliminating toxins, metabolising and converting other minerals, vitamins & essential goodies (including magnesium, and not forgetting 5-htp!), you're really doing yourself a disservice by doing this. I don't deny it might help alleviate some of the symptoms, but probably not the best way to turkey...

[BlackCook]

may be, but there are a lot of people who are taking N2o just for fun...

its the same with every drug: the user has to think about what hes doing with his body...

so i dont think that that is something very special here...

and if someone wants to get rid of his opiate addiction...swim never ever got problems with that.

[Micklemouse]

Blackcook wrote
may be, but there are a lot of people who are taking N2o just for fun...

Granted, but we're not talking about using it for fun, we're talking about using it as a tool for overcoming addiction. And how many people who do it for fun know what it is actually doing to them?

its the same with every drug: the user has to think about what hes doing with his body...

There is a big difference between thinking about what you are doing to your body and knowing what you are doing to your body.

so i dont think that that is something very special here...

You're rght. It's nothing special. Just another useless bit of harm reduction...

and if someone wants to get rid of his opiate addiction...swim never ever got problems with that.

Likewise. What I do have a problem with is people not being informed of potential consequences of their actions.

As I said, I don't deny that this could help alleviate symptoms. However... this method is compromising further an already compromised system - your body! There is evidence to say that people with addictions are more likely to have a major deficiency in several essential vitamins and minerals, including the B vitamins. There is also evidence to say that supplementing with these vitamins and minerals can actually help alleviate symptoms of withdrawal by improving mood, strengthening the immune system, improving soft muscle tone (potentially easing the cramps), aiding the bodies ability to eliminate toxins (particularly helpful when withdrawing, I think!). This method compromises all of the above.

Surely by going through a withdrawal you are trying to fix a broken thing. Why would you want to hinder that process by potentially breaking it further?

[BlackCook]

The most people are informed about POTENTIAL consequences of their drug abusal ect but they are doing it nevertheless...

You know what most people think of this...

Just wanted to give some information for ppl who want to kick of without a doc... it works and that what counts at the moment..

[BlackCook]

by the way: i think that using N2O when being on Xtasy or halluzinogens is more dangerous than using it to kick off...

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by BlackCook

by the way: i think that using N2O when being on Xtasy or halluzinogens is more dangerous than using it to kick off...

At the risk of temporarily derailing the thread - Because Why?

[bounz2dabeatz]

there is a lot of information coming out lately with regards to opiate tolerance and NMDA antagonists(nitrous, ketamine, dxm,pcp). i friend of swims once told swim that if he took a line of ketamine and then did his opiates his tolerance would be cut in half. This was tried by swim with little thought that it would work and it did. swim then began to read many articles on the subject of nmda antags and opiate tolerance and there seemed to be a substantial link there. swim has also used ketamine in times of withrawal and found that it helped greatly. so i would def agree that the nitrous could help during this step down period for you. Believe it or not people there is a link between nmda antags and opiate tolerance and withdrawl. I didnt believe it at first, but now im sure. Read up on it.

[Richard_smoker]

Bounz, you are correct. I don't see much difference between this and using DXM or other NMDA blocking methods, except for the obvious fact that nitrous only lasts for a minute--maybe.

I'm not sure about the overall half-life of N2O, however, although its effects are very short (subjectively), I suspect that its pharmacological effects are varied and exist very much outside the 45 second experience.

Just ask someone to stop doing whippits and go smoke a cigarette. Sorta unpleasant sides, like with other dissociatives and cigarettes, leading me to think that perhaps there is a shred of credence to this method.

[Dickon]

Surely some advice about N2O being flammable should be given here. I see a Richard Priar parallel! D