Netherlands - Dutch coffee shops introduce fingerprint ID

motorhead · #1 22-03-2006, 15:52

Dutch coffee shops introduce fingerprint ID

Jan Libbenga, The Register, 22nd March 2006

Some Dutch coffee shops, which sell marijuana in small quantities for personal use, are introducing fingerprinting technology to check the age of customers.

The shops are not allowed to sell to anyone under the age of 18. Coffee shops currently require photographic ID for proof of age.

The first coffee shops to use turnstiles with built-in fingerprint sensors are Inpetto in Rotterdam, Birdy in Haarlem, and 't Rotterdammertje in Doetinchem in the east of the country. Customers must first register with the shops, but personal details will not be stored.

The technology has been developed by FingerIdent, a company owned by Gerrie Mansur, one of the members of legendary Dutch hacking group Hit2000. According to Mansur, the system can match 35,000 fingerprints in less than a second.

MrJim · #2 22-03-2006, 17:31

The dutch government doesn't record fingerprints, though, do they? How would this work - Bring in some ID, have your print taken, then just take the print swipe each time you enter? How is this really any different than just showing your ID at the door?

xpr´k · #3 22-03-2006, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJim

The dutch government doesn't record fingerprints, though, do they? How would this work - Bring in some ID, have your print taken, then just take the print swipe each time you enter? How is this really any different than just showing your ID at the door?

Automatic for one, and you werent forced by law to carry any ID up till a few months ago in holland. I'm asuming the fingerprint idea dates from before the new ID law.

motorhead · #4 22-03-2006, 19:39

If you click on the link to the Register in my post there are many related stories regarding fingerprint identification technology in Europe that can probably bring people up to date on the topic. This is all very interesting stuff if you have the slightest interest in identity fraud, paranoia, or George Orwell.
I have no idea what the registers reputation is like, but a google search would probably bring up lots more goodies. Stuff like this makes me want to re-read Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, and 1984 by Orwell.

**Alfa** · #5 22-03-2006, 22:24

When they first introduced these machines, I stayed away from those coffeeshops as there is no way that I'm gonna give my fingerprint out. You never know what happens to that database. But more and more coffeeshops are using it. For them it is the ultimate solution. Cops are trying hard to find a minor inside. One minor can easely close the coffeeshop down for a limited time or permanent. It is however often possible to bypass the machine by buying your way in if you clearly are of legal age. Often you have to buy some consumption coins.

*Nature Boy* · #6 23-03-2006, 02:19

SWIM wouldn't be paranoid of his fingerprint being used. It's a good idea that will keep minors out of coffeeshops.

Sick Jack · #7 24-03-2006, 16:24

@nature_boy_liam

Yes of course, but just avoid to kill you mother-in-law and then visit a coffeeshop, as said, you don't what will be done with the data base.... ;-P

xpr´k · #8 24-03-2006, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfa

When they first introduced these machines, I stayed away from those coffeeshops as there is no way that I'm gonna give my fingerprint out. You never know what happens to that database. But more and more coffeeshops are using it. For them it is the ultimate solution. Cops are trying hard to find a minor inside. One minor can easely close the coffeeshop down for a limited time or permanent. It is however often possible to bypass the machine by buying your way in if you clearly are of legal age. Often you have to buy some consumption coins.

Alfa, do they actually store personal data to go along with the fingerprint, cause i dont really see the need for that? Just 'register' by showing your ID and your print should be the only data stored.

**Alfa** · #9 24-03-2006, 18:22

What is stored depends upon the coffeeshop. I suspect many will not store much more than age, fingerprint and access times. But those shops that can afford such a machine, are also likely to offer a savings card. When you buy a certain amount, you get points. With a certain amount of points, you get free weed. This card has a bit more data on you and how much you buy. I do not see this as all to problematic, but I just don't like the idea. Further this country is changing very rapidly. Justice minister Donner has talked about full customer registration of coffeeshops (Donnerpas) and recently grow shops. So, I will not take any chance of ending up in some future database.

motorhead · #10 25-03-2006, 18:48

The key word is 'future'. Imagine what things will be like in 20 years at our present rate of technological advancement. I mean, look at now-search engines storing massive amounts of data, electronic fingerprint machines, monotary transactions via credit/debit cards, ex-cons with tracking devices, cell phones and laptops with wireless access to the internet, increased connectivity worldwide to the internet-you get the idea.
Just imagine when all this eventually, and it will, comes together. A large % of the worlds population, and all their relevent personal information, will be on a database. Paint your own picture of events here, who knows exactly how it will play out, but I can imagine governments and law enforcement agencies weilding incredible power as a result of having access to such data.

FrankenChrist · #11 26-03-2006, 03:43

This is kind of off-topic, but Jan Libbenga is a great journalist. I think he also writes for OOR!, a Dutch music mag, and the Register, an on-line IT-mag.

Creeping Death · #12 24-04-2006, 21:59

If youre a minor in holland, isn't it easier to just buy weed off the street? Sure, coffeshops have different types, but it's not hard to find what you need if you ask around.

In sweden, everything is bought off the street if you're a minor. Beer too.

**Alfa** · #13 24-04-2006, 23:16

As a minor you can buy weed from friends. There are also some illegal places without a coffeeshop permit, which sell to anyone.

Creeping Death · #14 30-04-2006, 20:59

Makes the whole thing seem very redundant. It's like spending a bunch of money to make sure that minors don't buy dirt. They dont buy it from you anyway, because it's all over the place.

**Bajeda** · #15 20-07-2006, 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfa

It is however often possible to bypass the machine by buying your way in if you clearly are of legal age. Often you have to buy some consumption coins.

I thought consumption coins were for 16+ to buy cigarettes in vending machines. Or am I thinking of something else? (age coins maybe?)

levdog · #16 08-08-2006, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrJim

The dutch government doesn't record fingerprints, though, do they? How would this work - Bring in some ID, have your print taken, then just take the print swipe each time you enter? How is this really any different than just showing your ID at the door?

1. It says that the customer must first be registered with the shop, so presumably during the registration proccess, their print will be added to the shops, own database.

2. You dont actualy need to match the prints, you prints will tell the computer how old you are almost to the week, by just looking at them.