Don't Talk to Frank ... Frank Talks Crap

[johnnyvoid]

Government website talktofrank.com (http://www.talktofrank.com/) is riddled with inaccuracies, inconsistancies and contradictions the void (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com) can exclusively reveal today.

The site, set up in a blaze of publicity, aims to be a user friendly guide to drugs aimed at young people. However with some parts of the website pure comedy, and others at times dangerously inaccurate it seems young people may not be getting the 'harm minimisation' advice they need.

The site contains an a-z of commonly used drugs as well as a limited amount of reports and a freephone/e-mail service whereby users can ask questions in confidence.

Starting with cannabis, Frank does do the decent thing and warns users off soapbar saying

"The most unpure Cannabis is called 'soap bar'. It's contaminated with all sorts of things. This makes it cheaper but it's a false economy really as it is often harder to get stoned. Some users hate it so much they object to smoking it."

A full ten points so far, however Frank then goes on to say "There is a minimal risk of physical dependence."

err - says who? well says Frank I guess. Neatly sidestepping the issue of skunk in the A - Z guide, on another page outlining the unproven dangers to mental health caused by cannabis use Frank says "the strongest type of cannabis (is) called sinsemilla (or 'skunk')"

Wrong again Frank, and frankly you should know better 'cos on the a-z you say that sensemilla is "bud grown in the absence of male plants and has no seeds" which is actually correct whereas skunk is generally a hybrid of different strains of Cannabis (Cannabis Indica and Cannabis Sativa ).

On to mushies where Frank once again makes a hash of things by lumping Fly Agaric (amanita muscaria)and Liberty Caps (Psylocybin) into the same category, the catch all "Magic Mushrooms".

Incorrectly claiming that both types of mushrooms fall into the Class A range of illegal drugs (Fly Agaric is not covered by any legislation) it also gives the impression that these are similiar drugs of similiar strengths.

Again though Frank contradicts himself in a report on the recent legislation criminalising psylocibin stating "No. Fly agaric mushrooms do not contain psilocin and they are not controlled drugs."

On the A-Z Frank lists the dangers of fly agaric as

"Both mushrooms can make you feel sick, tired and disoriented.
Amanita's can make you nervous, twitchy and cold."

However in the report mentioned above Frank says "these mushrooms are very poisonous."

So what are the kids supposed to think, well the void would point them to recovery.org.uk's (http://www.recovery.org.uk/druginfo/index.html)info

"Fly Agaric is poisonous as well as being hallucinogenic. Its toxicity is mainly due to the presence of mycoatropine which causes disorders of mental activity. The content of another poisonous agent, muscarine, is relatively small. Permanent physical damage or even death can be caused by eating them."

Basically kids, Fly Agaric is a heavy psychedelic, not recommended at all for first time psychedelic users and should always be taken in a safe space, with somebody who is not on the drug who can help if necessary.

This shit is not recreational, and should be used as much as possible in a ritualistic setting to gain insights into the mind, personality and the ether.

Frank ignores the much recommended idiom of 'set and setting' when using psychedelics, the void recommends first time users read this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting)

We would also question the wisdom of even telling the kids about this stuff without at least providing a link to a mushroom identification guide, as both Fly Agaric and Psylocybin (Liberty Caps) look very similiar to some highly poisonous species. Harm reduction anyone ... not for Frank who goes on to make a similiar mistake with Tranquillisers.

Once again lumping all drugs together, even though Frank ackowledges that 'There are hundreds of different tranquillisers around' he then goes on to describe the effects of Benzodiazepines (valium, librium, temazepam etc) as if they applied to all tranquillisers.

Frank ignores the less widely used, but far stronger barbiturates even though according to recovery.org.uk "Barbiturate overdose is a factor in nearly one-third of all reported drug-related deaths. These include suicides and accidental drug poisonings."

Frank then says that "Tranquillisers can only be prescribed by a pharmacist. They are controlled under Class C of the misuse of drugs act."

What you on Frank? barbiturates are a Class B drug.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2280/1867/400/drugs.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2280/1867/1600/drugs.0.jpg)Skirting past ketamine, where Frank incorrectly states that "Legally produced ketamine comes in liquid form which is injected. The illegally produced version usually comes as a grainy white powder which is snorted or bought as a tablet."

well, close but no cigar here, almost all ketamine is pharmaceutically produced, and even illegally produced ketamine will come as a liquid form if you by in bulk, it's then 'cooked' down to the powder for ease of use and supply.

Perhaps we're nitpicking, but Frank excels when it comes to opiates. Ignoring the fact that street opium is becoming more and more popular, Frank chooses not to supply any info, instead concentrating on it's more insiduous cousin heroin. Go to the link for opium in his A-Z and you'll be taken straight to a page on heroin.

Frank is stringent in warnings of the dangers of heroin stating:

"Deaths from overdose occur. But the risk increases after a period off the drug because the body's tolerance for the drug goes down.
Excessive doses can lead to coma and even death from respiratory failure.
If heroin is taken with other drugs, including alcohol, overdose is much more likely.
Other downers such as benzodiazepine tranquillisers are also associated with heroin overdose deaths.
There's a risk of death due to inhaling vomit as heroin stops the body's cough reflex working properly."

However look what he says about the risks of methadone use

"With high doses the sedation takes over and users feel sleepy. Too much and you can fall into a coma or stop breathing completely."

and that's it in terms of the dangers of methadone overdose. In 2003 Methdone was directly responsible for 83 deaths and was a factor in a further 264. With total deaths from opiates running at about a thousand a year, one would of thought that with a significant percentage involving methadone then Frank would be only too keen to hammer home the risks.

But oh no, not Frank, wouldn't do to upset the drug companies after all would it.

On crack Frank talks of physical dependance (unproven) and when it comes to ectasy spouts guff like:

"E's can contain toxic other chemicals like MPTP, a drug known to cause irreversible Parkinson's disease. It's highly unlikely that many E's have MPTP in them. But the point is that taking E is a gamble."

whatever you say Frank...

Finally it seems that's Frank pretty choosy about what gets to be listed in his A-Z, including relatively hard to find (sadly) drugs like PMA, 2CB and 2-CT-7, but ignores the far more commonly used DOB, DMT, salvia, peyote and mescalin (type any of these drugs into Frank's search engine and it just ignores you).

So don't talk to Frank if these are your drug of choice, as Frank won't know what you're talking about.

On a lighter note, Frank comes up with some inspiring suggestions for 'getting high naturally' (as if smoking a herb that grows the world over is somehow unnatural).

Coming on like a bumbling middle aged vicar Frank advises the yoof to ... Get More Exercise ... Eat Better ... and Listen to More Music. Well done Frank for that helpful advice, according to Frank 'One third (of young people questioned) said they get their best high from doing well at college or work' with a paltry 3% claiming that drugs gave them the best buzz.

So there you go, the kids have spoken.

the void applauds any attempt to provide drugs information to young people in a way they can understand. However with recent figures showing that despite massively increased government spending drug related deaths remain as high as ever (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16673948&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=drug-war--is-a-flop---name_page.html)the wisdom of current government strategy has to be called into question.

And frankly, publishing inaccurate and misleading information on government backed websites is foolhardy and ignorant on one level ...

... and downright irresponsible on another, with mistakes on the site that could conceivably lead to fatalities.

With several leading MP's known former drug users, perhaps it's time for Hughes (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com/2006/01/simon-hughes-es-raver.html), Huhne (http://5thnovember.blogspot.com/2006/02/huhne-flip-flops.html) and Cameron (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com/2005/12/legendary-caner-wins-tory-leadership.html) amongst others to get their heads together and help to tell young people the truth about drug use and misuse.

In the meantime we sugest that young people experimenting with drugs make release (http://www.release.org.uk/), drugscope (http://www.drugscope.org.uk/) and recovery.org.uk (http://www.recovery.org.uk/druginfo/index.html) their first point of call if they want accurate and comprehensive information about the pleasures and pitfalls of illegal drugs.

However the void would like to recommend the comedy flash animation on Frank's front page, watch dancing ecstasy man descend into a drugs hell before your eyes - hours of fun (well maybe 5 minutes) for bored stoners.

We haven't finished with Frank yet, watch this space...


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2280/1867/400/frank_logo.gif (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/2280/1867/1600/frank_logo.gif)


meanwhile why not give him a call and let him know what you think



Reefer madness hits new high (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com/2006/01/reefer-madness-hits-new-high.html)
Cannabis Three Face Jail For Helping MS Sufferers (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com/2006/01/cannabis-three-face-jail-for-helping.html)
Simon Hughes ... 'e's a raver (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com/2006/01/simon-hughes-es-raver.html)

[Nagognog2]

Perhaps a new name for his site? "Let's Get Frank!" or "Can I Be Frank?" How about "A Frank and Pathetic Talk on Drugs."

Interesting pile of disinformation this site does spew forth. Nice of "Frank" to supply prices, as well as purely fictional facts. Thank you for being Frank and sharing this with us!

[radiometer]

I see many questionable "facts" in this debunking. Example:

relatively hard to find (sadly) drugs like PMA, 2CB and 2-CT-7, but ignores the far more commonly used DOB

Oh yeah, it's such a damned shame I can't get any of that great PMA stuff, too bad the scene is just flooded with DOB and peyote...and didn't they mean 2C-T-7 and 2C-B? Normally I wouldn't carp about the placement of a dash, but if you're out to discredit something then getting the details straight is important.

[johnnyvoid]

ok, so the DOB things a bit tenuous, but you can buy salvia and peyote on camden high street, and its not hard to track down mescaline or dmt (easier than trying to get hold of 2-CB)

you say several questionable facts

admit it, all youve got is DOB and a hyphen

[radiometer]

You seem to think I'm an apologist for Frank or something, which is not the case. I disagree with many points in this article but I can't be arsed to sit and pick it apart. The example I chose was enough for me to say "these people are no experts." I'm not about to listen to people who say PMA is "sadly rare." A single inaccuracy is enough, considering the point of the article is to show another's lack of expertise.

A goverment website has misleading information about drugs - well, big fuckin surprise!! That's precisely why forums such as this one exist. Perhaps I'm a bit jaded on this topic because in the US, such sites are a dime a dozen.

I wish the best of luck to these people in their effort to debunk Frank, who is clearly a moron.

[sands of time]

What did you expect from the government, besides a half assed attempt to protect it's people? What would drive someone to go to a government related web site for drug information anyways?

[robbiedont]

I seem to remember when Frank was first released that they had to do a very quick revamp after they got a bollocking for telling people how to actually use drugs... ( Obviously I don't mean drugs like X which is fairly bloody obvious, but how to cook up H and such like )

[enquirewithin]

It's not 100% rubbish, but it's not very well researched. 2-CB and 2-CT-7 are lumped together. The RISKS include:


Users may become depressed.
Drugslike these can bring on panic attacks and more serious psychotic illnesses.
It is not yet known if there is any long term damage.

Perhaps Frank should try Erowid? Death, in the case of 2-CT-7, is a risk to be taken seriously.

[pumped3.16]

id say frank is on crank!

[Alicia]

Ah talk to frank, more drug propaganda, I always recommend Erowid, to all it may concern rather than the biased bullshit of government fueled sites.

[Nature Boy]

Erowid's too biased in FAVOUR of drugs. Wikipedia is best.

[bonghed]

Well ask frank is ridiculous anti-drug propoganda but most pro-drug things i ever acknowledge are alse at least partly false or fictional, it's a real shame imo.



Changed oro=pro

[Fantasian]

I believe that both EROWID and WIKIPEDIA are good on the subject. Erowid gives very real information and so does Wikipedia. SWIM finds both of these sites to be very accurate from SWIM's experiences.

[Lunar Loops]

Oh dear god....this from the UK home office site (http://www.drugs.gov.uk/) :
Experience FRANK this Summer

25 May 2006
The FRANK campaign is getting interactive this year with a strategy to get young people to ‘Experience FRANK’ whether it be on TV with a new interactive advert, online with computer games or on the street with local campaigns and events. The strategy for 2006/07 has been agreed, with new advertising currently planned for launch in the summer holidays.
The campaign team are developing a range of resources and initiatives

a new suite of leaflets,
off the peg campaign kits,
drug fact cards,
merchandise and handouts,
new ideas and resources for further street marketing activityThese are designed to help you deliver credible, high quality drug awareness campaigns and advice to young people and to particularly appeal to more vulnerable groups.
FRANK Bus – Touring the North of England (NE, NW and Y&H regions)
One of the new initiatives this year is a FRANK double decker bus that will be touring around from the 31st July for a 10 week period. The bus will provide you and your partners with an opportunity to engage with young people and for them to interact with FRANK. The bus will be fully staffed and managed by our specialist team, meaning minimum local resource and supervision on your behalf – all you need to do is turn up! If you’d like to get more involved, there will also be a private advice zone enabling you to provide young people with drug information and advice.
What’s in it for you?

Opportunity to reach young people with drug awareness information and to promote local initiatives and services
Free use of bus, with access to internet and private room for confidential advice
Eye-catching focal point from which drug information can be delivered
Minimum input from you on the day as the bus is staffed with a driver and 3 event workers
Hand-outs and merchandiseThe bus has been produced to support your local activity – so if you have events coming up (local authority festivals, fun-days, sports tournaments, community events) please tell us where and when you’d like it to visit using the form overleaf. Where we actually go will depend on the overall schedule (minimising mileage), the type of event, and the expected numbers. The bus has been designed to be as flexible as possible, so can be used at both large events, and small (e.g. schools, town centres). Please remember that we cannot pay site-fees – so please only bid for events that will not charge us to be there (sometimes you can negotiate this with an event manager if they usually charge). If you would like to bid for the bus, and have FRANK come to your town, please fill out the form below and we’ll do the rest!
What you need to do next!
- Contact event organisers/local council to find out;

if you can have a pitch at the event/high street/leisure centre car park
a rough estimate of how many people will be expected to attend
who we the main contact is
Fill out the form (http://www.drugs.gov.uk/publication-search/frank/FRANKBusBid) and email/send back to details belowWhat you’ll need to do before on the day!

Before the event we can help you with a press release to promote the bus and what you’re doing, in the local press.- On the day, it would be good if you could be there to;

engage with young people and tell them about FRANK and local services and initiatives
offer more in depth drug information and advice in case it’s requiredAlthough you can still arrange for the bus to come to your area even if you or your partners are unable to attend on the day.
You can get more details about the bus and have a virtual tour at http://transfer.interbrand.co.uk (http://transfer.interbrand.co.uk/) Type in username: livefrank and password: experience
Thanks, and hope to see you in the summer!
The FRANK Campaign Team.

[Nature Boy]

Haha. How gay!

I hate the whole "Talk To Frank" BS. You should see their website. Full of blatant lies and mistakes.

[matti_2003]

The website is shocking, people could end up killing themselves with their misinformation.

[Alfa]

Due to enormous advertising campaign of talk to frank, I'd like to devote some html pages to this topic. Please check out talk to frank and post your comments here. What would you like to be on our Talk to Frank pages?

[WrtngCocaineTutorial]

frank ain't frank about drugs ;) LoL

In simular "franks" from my country they have diffenernent paragraphs on drugs. like

effects
risk of overdose
addiction

and on MDMA and addction, they write "there is no treatment for MDMA addicion", and absolutely nothing about the non-risk of physical addiction..

[johnnyvoid]

hi alpha, just saw this, how did things go with the talk to frank page

i followed up the piece with a couple more

Frankly ... you know fuck all (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com/2006/05/frankly-you-know-fuck-all.html)


three ways to get high naturally ... an alternative to frank (http://johnnyvoid.blogspot.com/2006/06/three-ways-to-get-high-naturally.html)


feel free to use them any way you see fit

[Alfa]

I just posted this, so I did not come very far yet. FYI: I do not want to make something simular to talk to frank, but something sceptic.
To spice things up a bit, see this Talk to Frank add (http://tangozebra.com/adgallery_preview.phtml?ad_id=7698).

[Alfa]

OK, I have created this so far: http://www.drugs-forum.com/talk-to-frank.html Any suggestions?

[Forthesevenlakes]

looks good..the word "critic" should be "criticism" in the first paragraph but that was probably just an oversight. more online critiques of frank would be nice.

or perhaps someone from the forum could email the site with some tough questions to prove their ignorance? cannabis is not swim's forte, otherwise he'd already be on it. but for such a commonly used drug, swim honestly knows very few facts on it.

[Alfa]

www.TalktoFrank.com has many sections on various drugs. I am planning to make a couple of subpages. I have the text for one sub page so far.

[Forthesevenlakes]

excellent, maybe swim can write them regarding something on one of these drugs.

[radiometer]

I like this graphic:

[matti_2003]

It's looking good, Il keep my eye on this.

[Abrad]

Has anyone played this game (http://www.talktofrank.com/dopedash/index.html)? It's fucking ridiculous. SWIM certainly couldn't move as fast as those stoners after a few joints.

[matti_2003]

Yeah its absolutly stupid.
What are they doing out in daylight?
How did they get the motivation to get off the sofa?

[Bajeda]

Could someone explain how popular this thing is and where? I have never seen this before, though I got a laugh out of reading that hash is the most common form of cannabis and that weed is stronger! Plus the stupid dodge the stoner game has ALOT of misconceptions.

I couldn't even be bothered to read through any more of his drug descriptions after about two or so.


This site is very unprofessional and not very well informed. Just how popular is this thing?

[Bajeda]

Has anyone played this game (http://www.talktofrank.com/dopedash/index.html)? It's fucking ridiculous. SWIM certainly couldn't move as fast as those stoners after a few joints.

Its the tolerance of course. The stoners aren't affected anymore so its all good. :rolleyes:

[Nagognog2]

That game was made by drunks.

[grecian]

What would drive someone to go to a government related web site for drug information anyways?


a massive ongoing media/advertising campaign

[grecian]

Talking of which Frank has a new advert out, the link to a BBC news video on this is in the Drugs Forum news coverage video section:

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?catid=39#linkid1086

[Akewstick]

Nice of "Frank" to supply prices, as well as purely fictional facts. Thank you for being Frank and sharing this with us!

Ludicrous prices, if it's ok for me to say, average UK prices are a fraction of what this site suggests.

[ThirdEyeFloond]

Tragicomical funny site, much similar to other supposedly informative government supported drug-sites. In Franks defence I have to comment this statement though:

Skirting past ketamine, where Frank incorrectly states that "Legally produced ketamine comes in liquid form which is injected. The illegally produced version usually comes as a grainy white powder which is snorted or bought as a tablet."

well, close but no cigar here, almost all ketamine is pharmaceutically produced, and even illegally produced ketamine will come as a liquid form if you by in bulk, it's then 'cooked' down to the powder for ease of use and supply.

Almost all ketamine is produced for pharmaceutical use, and therefore will end up in vials at some point as this is the only administrationform it is used legit, and sooner or later those vials will end up on the blackmarket aswell. But when buying bulk (for either illegal purposes or legal re-exportation) from the chemical companies that actualy produce the compound SWIM has to say he has never seen it supplied in vials. If SWIUs are talking bulk bulk, 25kilo drums of powder is the standard, but less bulky bulk like 500grams/1kilo is also usualy/always? found as powder.

[Alfa]

Check the image gallery for pictures of those 25 kg drums.

[matti_2003]

Anyone seen the latest thing bought out by Frank. Its called drugs mugs. It's a 3D simulator that uses a photo of your face to show how you could look under the effects of Ecstasy, Cocaine, and Crystal Meth.
An Example ...
http://83.231.168.148/img/boymeth.gif

[Bajeda]

has anyone emailed "Frank" asking him why he spouts so much BS in a nice manner and actually gotten a reply?

The people who answer the emails don't seem to like getting mail from actual educated people.

[Alfa]

Off course not. They are marketing people, not drug educators.

[Nagognog2]

So we can go and buy "Frank Games" for our kids! Like Frank Monopoly? Frank Spin-The-Bottle? Frank Poker-Cards? But a Frank Discussion isn't a possibility? I suggest we buy our kids more comic books to keep our children from growing up with warped minds.

[geezaman]

When SWIM and Co were first Exploring the relms of drugs, one of SWIMs friends said speed was not addictive, an discussion insued and FRANK was rung up to solve the issue, to SWIMs horror FRANK agreed that speed was not addictive. FRANK was re rung later and a different opperator answered who then said speed was adictive but not as addictive as heroin.
:( :eek: :confused: :eek: :( this was dissapointing to say the least, horrific perhaps a better tearm, that such a well advertised teenager aimed service would givesuch mis information

[Trebor]

I like this site, it doesn't deal with the hard hallucenagens, like Ayahuasca or Mescaline/peyote. SO, by my logic, they arn't drugs and I should be able to consume as much as I want.

[Evil GIR]

Hey check this out :

http://www.myspace.com/frankondrugs

http://talktofrank.zapto.org (http://talktofrank.zapto.org/)
http://talktofrank.hopto.org (http://talktofrank.hopto.org/)

Well I am just trying to debunk the uks stupidy anti drug rubbish and well myspace is very popular with the so called frank`s audience, i have added some other links which i hope eventualy will be caught up by google and listed right next to the real frank, well i can only dream.

[Alfa]

I love your banner. Please link to http://www.drugs-forum.com/talk-to-frank.html
You may want to add the phrase "talk to frank" a few dozen times on that page and in the code.

[Evil GIR]

Done, more or less

[matti_2003]

Good work dib. I like the sarcasm

[Bajeda]

lol nice, though I found the link hard to find at first. Still, with a banner that cool who could resist clicking on it!?!

[Evil GIR]

My bullitin on myspace

SERIOUS MESSAGE : FRANK needs your help


Well I think a good way to try and eat up FRANKs resources would be if everybody ordered their free leaflets and threw them straight into the bin.

Thats right follow the link to franks webpage where you can order 3 copies of 4 leaflets, so thats 12 all together.

http://ddshl.broadsystem.com/freeleaflets.aspx

So if we get everybody to do it that's 1200 leaflets for 100 people, just think how much in postage alone that's going to cost them.



Ill repost this every month or so for all my new friends


Thanks for the support guys

[Alfa]

Leaflets are printed in lots of 5.000 or more. I'll bet they've ordered them in 50.000 lots or more. There is no way you are going to make a difference on that scale. And if you would, it would have the opposite effect, because if a lot of people request leaflets, then there must be a demand for Frank's services. That demand means that Frank is a success. Which in turn means more funds for frank, not less.

[Evil GIR]

Doh, yeah that makes sense, got to think of another way

[I love shrooooms]

One of swims friends once phoned TTF and said "What should i do, ive just given my dog some LSD" :P

but anyways a big anti-drugs company spewing lies left,right and center isnt really new

[Evil GIR]

I hope you dont mind but i have edited wikipedia and updated it on frank by using some of this sites text.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRANK_%28drugs%29

[Allez]

To be honest, our critique of Frank is a lot more biased then Frank itself.

Frank says "the strongest type of cannabis (is) called sinsemilla (or 'skunk')"

Wrong again Frank, and frankly you should know better 'cos on the a-z you say that sensemilla is "bud grown in the absence of male plants and has no seeds" which is actually correct whereas skunk is generally a hybrid of different strains of Cannabis (Cannabis Indica and Cannabis Sativa ).

"Skunk" is an unfortunately generic term. While in certain circle's it may describe a hybrid, I find it really only means a strong strain.


On to mushies where Frank once again makes a hash of things by lumping Fly Agaric (amanita muscaria)and Liberty Caps (Psylocybin) into the same category, the catch all "Magic Mushrooms".

What, from the government's point of view or even from an unbias informational one, is achieved by seperating the two? Especially given that Frank only brushs over the broader details of each drug. "Magic Mushroom", ie a mushroom eaten recreationally for it's hallucinogenic properties. Sounds right to me.

Incorrectly claiming that both types of mushrooms fall into the Class A range of illegal drugs (Fly Agaric is not covered by any legislation)

Perhaps you should read that section again.

...it also gives the impression that these are similiar drugs of similiar strengths.

To quote from Frank: ".....fly agaric (Amanita Muscaria) is much more potent and risky to take." Seems pretty clear to me.

Again though Frank contradicts himself in a report on the recent legislation criminalising psylocibin stating "No. Fly agaric mushrooms do not contain psilocin and they are not controlled drugs."

No, that's you contradicting yourself. Re-read Frank's summaries from an unbias position and you see they are much clearer then you believe.

"Both mushrooms can make you feel sick, tired and disoriented.
Amanita's can make you nervous, twitchy and cold."

However in the report mentioned above Frank says "these mushrooms are very poisonous."

Again, poisonous is a broad, unspecific term. Anything that can have a negative effect on the body, including triggering hallunications, is deemed poisonous. In fact, reading through the article, I don't see Frank say that anywhere. And you accuse him of fabrication.


Frank ignores the much recommended idiom of 'set and setting' when using psychedelics, the void recommends first time users read this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_and_setting)

He does, unfortuantely, in relation to mushrooms. He does bring it up under LSD though.

We would also question the wisdom of even telling the kids about this stuff without at least providing a link to a mushroom identification guide, as both Fly Agaric and Psylocybin (Liberty Caps) look very similiar to some highly poisonous species. Harm reduction anyone ... not for Frank who goes on to make a similiar mistake with Tranquillisers.

Obviously you're not experienced with mushroom identification. Even with a clearly described and illustrated identification key, distinguishing between some varities of Amanita is virtually impossible for the untrained. To provide a key would be reckless in the extreme as it would give people false confidence, possible giving them that little extra guarentee they needed to go out and give it a go. Which could lead to them picking them wrong mushroom and killing themselves. Which would, in turn, lead back to the key they got off the Governments webpage.

Harm reduction..... anyone?

Once again lumping all drugs together, even though Frank ackowledges that 'There are hundreds of different tranquillisers around' he then goes on to describe the effects of Benzodiazepines (valium, librium, temazepam etc) as if they applied to all tranquillisers.

Again, no purpose would be served my expanding on it. The guides are not specific enough to warrant it. He's a little ambigious about whether he's describing tranquilisers in general or just benzo's, but generally the effects he described do apply to all tranquillisers.

Frank ignores the less widely used, but far stronger barbiturates even though according to recovery.org.uk "Barbiturate overdose is a factor in nearly one-third of all reported drug-related deaths. These include suicides and accidental drug poisonings."

He doesn't ignore anything. He never specifies what he's describing, apart from the aforementioned ambiguiety. Which is unfortunate but hardly dangerous.

Frank then says that "Tranquillisers can only be prescribed by a pharmacist. They are controlled under Class C of the misuse of drugs act."

What you on Frank? barbiturates are a Class B drug.

Depends on the tranquilliser. Minor tranqs are Class C, stronger tranq's are Class B.

Skirting past ketamine, where Frank incorrectly states that "Legally produced ketamine comes in liquid form which is injected. The illegally produced version usually comes as a grainy white powder which is snorted or bought as a tablet."

For all entents and purposes, he's correct. If the ketamine is in liquid form then it's reasonable to presume it's pure. If it's a powder, even if it started life as a liquid, then it's been "illegally produced" (maybe converted or cooked would have been a better word choice), and could easily have been cut. No medicinal ketamine comes as a powder. Again, ambigious, but not false, and bias more towards health and safety. It's the government, it's to be expected.

and even illegally produced ketamine will come as a liquid form if you by in bulk, it's then 'cooked' down to the powder for ease of use and supply.

If your buying ketamine in bulk then Frank ain't going to make much of a difference. They're ambigious in their word choice for the aforementioned reasons.

Perhaps we're nitpicking, but Frank excels when it comes to opiates. Ignoring the fact that street opium is becoming more and more popular, Frank chooses not to supply any info, instead concentrating on it's more insiduous cousin heroin. Go to the link for opium in his A-Z and you'll be taken straight to a page on heroin.

Again, it's unfortunate on his part. But looking at the format of the site as a whole, he brushes over types of drugs rather then specific one's (the aforementioned tranquillisers and mushrooms). While this would suggest the opium page should link to a summary of opiates in general, I personally don't believe street opium is a big enough problem to justify subjugating heroin like that.

However look what he says about the risks of methadone use

"With high doses the sedation takes over and users feel sleepy. Too much and you can fall into a coma or stop breathing completely."

and that's it in terms of the dangers of methadone overdose. In 2003 Methdone was directly responsible for 83 deaths and was a factor in a further 264. With total deaths from opiates running at about a thousand a year, one would of thought that with a significant percentage involving methadone then Frank would be only too keen to hammer home the risks.

When describing the dangers of heroin, Frank describes different ways heroin use can kill. Without the need for needles and the like, there are less way's methadone can kill.

But oh no, not Frank, wouldn't do to upset the drug companies after all would it.

Don't be silly.

On crack Frank talks of physical dependance (unproven)

But probable. Likely enough to mention in a government funded anti-drugs website.

..... and when it comes to ectasy spouts guff like:

"E's can contain toxic other chemicals like MPTP, a drug known to cause irreversible Parkinson's disease. It's highly unlikely that many E's have MPTP in them. But the point is that taking E is a gamble."

whatever you say Frank...

What's wrong with that statement?

Finally it seems that's Frank pretty choosy about what gets to be listed in his A-Z, including relatively hard to find (sadly) drugs like PMA, 2CB and 2-CT-7, but ignores the far more commonly used DOB, DMT, salvia, peyote and mescalin (type any of these drugs into Frank's search engine and it just ignores you).

Salvia, peyote and mescaline are available in my local headshops. DMT is, from my limited experience, which I admit is pretty meaningless, rare enough.

Coming on like a bumbling middle aged vicar Frank advises the yoof to ... Get More Exercise ... Eat Better ... and Listen to More Music. Well done Frank for that helpful advice, according to Frank 'One third (of young people questioned) said they get their best high from doing well at college or work' with a paltry 3% claiming that drugs gave them the best buzz.

You do get a natural high from those activities. Perhaps it's a little ambitious comparing it to illegal drugs, but it's still completely true.

The poll seems a little off. No doubt it was twisted a little to give suitable results, but that's to be expected. Kids don't know what their talking about anyway. Ever see an internet poll on the legalisation of marijuana? Or sometimes even all drugs?

the void applauds any attempt to provide drugs information to young people in a way they can understand. However with recent figures showing that despite massively increased government spending drug related deaths remain as high as ever (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16673948&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=drug-war--is-a-flop---name_page.html)the wisdom of current government strategy has to be called into question.

I'll save you my opinion on modern social trends, but I still believe this is to be expected. I think it should be commended that the government keep drug use in check as they do.

And frankly, publishing inaccurate and misleading information on government backed websites is foolhardy and ignorant on one level ...

... and downright irresponsible on another, with mistakes on the site that could conceivably lead to fatalities.

I think not.


This may not be much less bias then the thread in general, but to scrutinise both sides of an arguement with AN OPEN MIND givs you a better picture then rooting through a site looking for slight ambiguities.

[Nature Boy]

What, from the government's point of view or even from an unbias informational one, is achieved by seperating the two? Especially given that Frank only brushs over the broader details of each drug. "Magic Mushroom", ie a mushroom eaten recreationally for it's hallucinogenic properties. Sounds right to me.

The Fly Agaric mushroom and the psilocybin/psilocin-containing magic mushroom are entirely different with two complete different spectrums of hallucinogenic and physiological effects. One contains toxins, the other doesn't. To define them as the same is irresponsible because it may lead to confusion.

Obviously you're not experienced with mushroom identification. Even with a clearly described and illustrated identification key, distinguishing between some varities of Amanita is virtually impossible for the untrained. To provide a key would be reckless in the extreme as it would give people false confidence, possible giving them that little extra guarentee they needed to go out and give it a go. Which could lead to them picking them wrong mushroom and killing themselves. Which would, in turn, lead back to the key they got off the Governments webpage.

Harm reduction..... anyone?

Amanita varieties of mushroom are responsible for nearly all fatal poisonings related to mushrooms - no-one should even attempt to pick them without knowing what they are doing and it's certainly something that doesn't even need to be addressed by Frank. The Liberty Cap however, does not have any poisonous lookalikes on the British Isles. There are few, if any, cases of people dying due to their misidentification. The government has often used this excuse in their case against magic mushroom use which is simply spinning the facts.

[Allez]

The Fly Agaric mushroom and the psilocybin/psilocin-containing magic mushroom are entirely different with two complete different spectrums of hallucinogenic and physiological effects. One contains toxins, the other doesn't. To define them as the same is irresponsible because it may lead to confusion.

The government regards both as poisonous, for me previously mentioned reasons, or at least leads the public to believe so, to discourage experimentation.



...and it's certainly something that doesn't even need to be addressed by Frank.

That some mushrooms that look quite similar to recreationally used hallucinogenic mushrooms is something that doesn't need to be adressed be Frnak? How so?


The Liberty Cap however, does not have any poisonous lookalikes on the British Isles. There are few, if any, cases of people dying due to their misidentification. The government has often used this excuse in their case against magic mushroom use which is simply spinning the facts.

http://www.mushroomjohn.com/lookalikes1.htm

Don't apply guesswork when dealing with what could be people's lives.

[Nature Boy]

The government regards both as poisonous, for me previously mentioned reasons, or at least leads the public to believe so, to discourage experimentation.

That's not their jurisdiction. Experimentation shouldn't be discouraged because experimenters will do what they want to do anyway. They need the real facts. No finger wagging.

That some mushrooms that look quite similar to recreationally used hallucinogenic mushrooms is something that doesn't need to be adressed be Frnak? How so?

Amanita forms of hallucinogenic mushrooms are relatively unknown to the public. Frank spouting out bullshit about them won't help anyone because it will only lead to confusion over the more commonly, if not exclusively, -used psychedelic mushroom.

That link didn't provide images on any one mushroom that looks anything like a Liberty Cap to someone who's seen one in his own hand before. Enough of the spinning please.

[Allez]

That's not their jurisdiction. Experimentation shouldn't be discouraged because experimenters will do what they want to do anyway. They need the real facts. No finger wagging.

It's an anti-drugs website that shouldn't discourage experimentation?


Amanita forms of hallucinogenic mushrooms are relatively unknown to the public. Frank spouting out bullshit about them won't help anyone because it will only lead to confusion over the more commonly, if not exclusively, -used psychedelic mushroom.

So we shouldn't educate the public about them? At least your consistent.

That link didn't provide images on any one mushroom that looks anything like a Liberty Cap to someone who's seen one in his own hand before. Enough of the spinning please.

Most people I know who go mushroom picking do it as soon as the season starts. Young death caps look pretty similar young liberty caps. Even when grown, people can get over excited.

[Nature Boy]

It's an anti-drugs website that shouldn't discourage experimentation?

It's not supposed to be an anti-drugs website. It's supposed to be UNBIASED!

So we shouldn't educate the public about them? At least your consistent.

Irrelevant information is useless. There is little or no interest in Amanita mushrooms. Bringing them up in that context is wrong.

Most people I know who go mushroom picking do it as soon as the season starts. Young death caps look pretty similar young liberty caps. Even when grown, people can get over excited.

SWIM has never seen a young death cap therefore it is difficult to reply to this. He's never seen any mushrooms other than Liberty Caps with the same tell-tale signs of identification however. That being said, he's only ever picked mushrooms in fields that have been flagged as safe by people more knowledgable on the subject. Wouldn't it just be better if people could buy safe mushrooms in shops if you're so worried then?

[Evil GIR]

http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/2496/franksf3.jpgall i am saying

[Allez]

Wow, good arguement. Listen to a government run anti-drugs website, and you could die. End of arguement.

Then try to make it sound final and true by finishing with "All I am saying".

Here's an idea, post something relevant.

[Evil GIR]

I just though it was funny, thats all.


You see at the moment the goverment has decided to promote the dangers of cannabis by saying it will make you puke and lose your mind so when people actually smoke cannabis they will realise this is all BS. (go see there brain advert)

Now because of this some people may think that governments info on crack is just BS, how can they not when they lied about cannabis, so with the goverment lieing about drugs and not really giving true honest information like they advertise they are actually putting people in dangerous because of there mis-information.

anyway do you work for them or something, you seem very defensive about them.

[Nagognog2]

Talk to Frank? Let's cut out the middle-man. Lobotomies For Everyone!

[Allez]

No, I think Frank is useless (but not dangerous). None the less, a balanced arguement has two sides so I'll fight for Frank to the death.

[Allez]

(That to dib by the way. When the hell can I edit my posts?).

[bewilderment]

(That to dib by the way. When the hell can I edit my posts?).

A simple search will reveal that one must attain silver membership status in order to edit posts. One must receive a few positive reputation points to become silver. That is, you need to get that little red reputation box you have to turn green and you can edit.

[Nagognog2]

(That to dib by the way. When the hell can I edit my posts?).

See the little red square on the upper right on your posts? Yes? When you get enough positive (green square) reputation points - you will be promoted to silver. Then you can edit your own posts. Until then you can get on your knees, take up self-flagellation, and pray to Frank for help (you should live so long).

Or you can grovel to a moderator to do it. But we don't like Frank too much. Can't trust us.

[Allez]

No skin off my back. It just mean your boards will look childish and unprofessional with so many needless double posts.

And I'll look like someone trying to up my post count, which will make you look worse for not doing anything about it.

Doesn't that whole system promote lick-ass grovelling, and discourage having a unique opinion or disagreeing with someone elses?

[Nature Boy]

Stay on topic 'unique opinion'.

[bewilderment]

Doesn't that whole system promote lick-ass grovelling, and discourage having a unique opinion or disagreeing with someone elses?

Many things which may be shared are not opinion-based. Thus, if you disagree with many here then you may not get the "reputation" which allows you to move up in membership status. However, if you provide information in other threads on the board which are not opinion-oriented then people will eventually begin to leave positive rep points for the information provided. You could even end up getting some points in opinion-oriented threads even if you do happen to disagree with most if you brought in some facts and data which counters the popular arguments found here.

And, upping your post count will do nothing to help advance you to the point where you can edit unless you are providing quality posts which stick out from the rest in any particular thread.

There are reasons why people can't edit before reaching silver membership status and some of them have to do with trying to make the board tidier.

Good luck.

[Abrad]

http://www.talktofrank.com/article.aspx?id=1624

[Alfa]

Oh god no.

[Nagognog2]

Quick! Link Frank to Totsie!!

[grandbaby]

Sweet Jesus, I can only imagine the fun to be had with this. Somebody start a thread in "Funny Shit" quick, before endless FrankBOT transcripts start cluttering up the serious threads!

[Nagognog2]

The Frank-Prank.

[Bajeda]

Since 'Frank' isn't a real person could they prosecute swim for putting a .45 to Frank's head and pulling the trigger?

[Nagognog2]

That would make a nice freebie online-game! With a bit of re-working - something like this:

http://www.quailhuntingschool.com/flash.php

Instead of a shotgun: A blowgun full of ???. Work on it! LOL!

A young lady I knew brought her toddler over to my house one evening. The little girl LOVED my Nun-Puppet. It is a Nun that has boxing-gloves and throws punches if you push the right levers inside.

The little girl asked "What's it name?" I told her :Butthead!"

I got a semi-complaint a month later: Her little girl saw some Nuns on the sidewalk - and she started pointing at them shouting: "Butthead! Butthead!"

I nearly died laughing.

See what could be done to 'Frank' if he were popularized as an insipidly stupid internet game?

[JumpinJackFlash]

The 'Stories' section gets to me, FRANK just seems to interview people who have wrecked their lives taking drugs. Now I know, government website, so what, but I think the creators realise this and so they put in some stupid story about some parents smoking a kids surfboard wax because they thought it resin or something.

The 'Your Space' section seems to be more inclusive that drugs might not be completely bad. I sent an e-mail to them asking why they didn't have any positive drugs stories, didn't get a reply, that's why their slogan isn't talk with FRANK, it's just covering against litigation. I suggest that all those in here who regularly frequent the "advance drug discussion" forums call them up and start ranting strange combinations of letters and numbers then they might get some experts in who know what they are talking about.

[Pondlife]

I like to think that the people behind "talk to frank" have their hearts in the right place, but when all's said and done it's just reefer madness 2.0 isn't it?

The real problem I have with this, apart from the inaccuracies that have been pointed out, is that anything that distorts the truth ends up being counter-productive, and with something as potentially dangerous as psycoactive substances that's bad.

If you underplay the positive and overplay the negative, then when people discover that it's not 100% correct they will assume that it's 100% wrong. Here is a good example of the dangers of "just say no" (or variations thereof):

http://www.heroinhelper.com/user/experiences/lies.shtml

Why do countries with more relaxed attitudes to alcohol have less youth alcohol problems? Why do countries with more relaxed and honest attitudes to sex have lower teenage pregnancies? It's not rocket science is it?

[Whit]

www.talktohank.co.uk (http://www.talktohank.co.uk)

[Shiacmkmleer]

www.talktohank.co.uk (http://www.talktohank.co.uk)
That website is 50 diffrent types of hilarous. Swis isnt stoned and its the funniest thing hes seen in days

[Lunar Loops]

This from the KFx website (http://www.ixion.demon.co.uk/index.htm) :

Frankly Unacceptable
4.6.07

Frank recently published their "Campaign Update" at the end of May 2007 with their 19-page "Cannabis Explained" document. And while we can generally expect publications from Frank to peddle the usual Government line when it comes to drugs and their related risks, this new Update is far worse. It has a number of ommissions and inaccuracies which suggest, at best, some sloppy editing/proof-reading and at worse a worrying lack of drugs awareness amongst those responsible for disseminating drugs information across the UK.
From the first photograph on the top of page 3, the Update is a strange affair. This graphic shows a collection of waste, trimmed and browning cannabis leaves, looking quite autumnal but utterly unlike what anyone would use for intoxication. Another image on page 7 shows a collection of crack pipes, rather than cannabis equipment.
But it is the "factual" content which is most alarming. The document makes a number of erroneous, unsubstantiated or dubious statements including:

that cannabis resin is made by scraping the dried leaves of cannabis plants
that smoking cannabis in joints is the least harmful way to use it
that use of cannabis damages the immune system
becoming horribly confused about defintions for herbal cannabis, skunk and sensimellia
relying on a set of unproven "strengths" of cannabis from a 2004 Healthwise document to "show" how strong different strains are
failing to mention contaminants in SoapBar and glass-contamination of herbal cannabisFollowing criticism of the document from KFx, the UKCIA and other commentators, the Home Office has written back to say that they are reviewing the content of the "Update." However, at the time of writing they haven't chosen to take it off the Home Office website which means that this inaccurate, dangerous and misleading piece of work is still being disseminated around the country.
For a copy of the Update - see HERE (http://www.drugs.gov.uk/communications-and-campaigns/materials-library/frank/action-updates/cannabisexplained?view=Standard&pubID=466094)
For a point by point rebuttal of the document by UKCIA (http://www.ukcia.org/activism/cannabis_explained_frank.php) go here
If you want to see what KFx said to Frank about the document click HERE (http://www.ixion.demon.co.uk/Frank%20on%20cannabis.pdf)

[Alicia]

Talk to frank will always talk crap. its made that way it wants people/worried parents to acknowledge there bullshit. To believe it as gospel although they also seem to think these people are stupid and would never look behind what there being told or reading, and even worse these some of these people will then go around and preach there newly taught bullshit to others then strengthening the lies and ruining any harm reduction at all.

[Nagognog2]

The United States Constitution and Bill of Rights are written on hemp (cannabis) paper. Most likely the Magna Carta is too. So would burning these documents be illegal? Or destruction of illicit drugs?

This gets so confusing!

[dirk]

So would burning these documents be illegal? Or destruction of illicit drugs?

some would say that it depends upon wether you inhaled or not
:)

[machine_elf]

Swim has found staggering inaccuracies with "frank"
It grossly overstreses neglegable risks and fails to tell of the more real risks and thereby doesn't give serious harm reduction.

Its a farce.

[Bajeda]

www.talktohank.co.uk (http://www.talktohank.co.uk)

Just discovered that today and come in here to post it but it would seem you beat me to it.

What a great site! The A-Z of Drugs section is brilliant.


Some good quotes from what I've read so far:

"Drugs are illegal, but lying about them isn't"

"Ignorance is a Class A Narcotic and can seriously damage your health."

"Alcohol - A little known drug used primarily by the Mambomambo tribe in the Amazon basin, who use the plant as a rite of passage into manhood. Alcohol has many properties which make it useful as a medicine, and because of the the NHS spend £1.7 billion pounds a year on alcohol research."

"Sex- an evil drug which spreads AIDS to all unmarried users. Many users claim that "using a condom" will prevent the spread of AIDS. Lies, condom usage increases an individuals risk of contracting AIDS by 3000%"

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Get naturally high by getting more exercise?Frank can fuck off!Swim likes to live life a little more in the slow pace if ya know what swim means;)

[Alfa]

This one is much nicer! the 'getting help' link doesn work. Would be funny if that linked to DF. To bad the site has no SEO. Would be funny if it would turn up higher in the search engines than talktofrank itself. And Frank's SEO is as good as it's info.

[radiometer]

I too wish that the creators of talktohank would continue to build it up. It's brilliant, and should be finished or handed over to those who will do so.

[Whit]

Tis a neat little site I know!

One of my favourites:

DXMFound in many cough and cold medicines, you've probably been taking it your entire life, DRUGGIE!

I also love the advert on the home page "Can you read this easily? If not you need help" - obviously it's blurred!

[Whit]

Warning this may upset some viewers...... Seems you can't dance how you like now aswell......

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jan/18/advertising.drugsandalcohol


EDIT: The "Stoner" looks more like he's pissed tbh. Why don'nt they mention that I wonder!?!?!

[Micklemouse]

They do mention that he may have mixed his drugs though.

If it wasn't so sad it'd be hilarious. Please add this to the Video (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?catid=126) archive.

Was that a deliberate misspelling of Grauniad btw?

[Whit]

Being as he's a "Cannabis smoker" who............................................... .................................................. .................................................. ............ "may have chosen to mix his drugs".... (With alcohol)

I think it's prety safe to say that psychologically he's going to go down as a "Cannabis smoker" :( No doubt deliberate.

He could have been "A piss head".............................................. "who may have chosen to mix his drugs" (With weed)
. I don't see the difference between the two? They chose however to emphasise he is a "stoner" :( I hate my country!!!

Hehehe, no it wasn't, thanks for sorting that :)

EDIT: Hey btw, I need some guidance adding that vid :S - Scrap that it's in there now :)

[~lostgurl~]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/index.php/forum/links/downloads/forum/links/downloads/imageuploads/558512008317468415.jpg
A new entry has been added to Drugs Archive

Description:
2 mins

The government's new drugs awareness campaign is a spoof wildlife documentary about a teenage house party – complete with a voiceover impersonating David Attenborough.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit Talk To Frank - Anti Drugs Advert (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/local_links.php?linkid=4220&catid=144)
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.

[FuBai]

Isn't this almost exactly the same as the American thing with "stoners in the mist"? Seems that we've just nicked American drug education techniques again, and as with DARE, I'm sure they will be an unmitigated success...

[~lostgurl~]

Talk To Frank - Anti Drugs Advert (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45741)

HA can you please merge threads

[Whit]

"The Pill Taker" (WTF!), so called becaused he was TRYING to take Ecstasy, but unfourtunately due to a nasty scheme to control your life and make lots of money by the worlds governements (+ large industry bodies), has ended up taking, compressed white shit, from a guy down the street with more ASBO's than qualifications.

Seems as though your not even allowed to dance the way you like anymore aswell! Remember to conform to the governements guidlines on dancing... I'm sure there out there!! If he's enjoying himself.... so F*ing what!?! They could atleast shown him to be enjoying himself!

[aerozeppelin123]

Lol I know that video is such a load of BS, the only way young people will ever listen to the authorities about drugs is if they are honest and tell them, yes drugs can be great and you can have an amazing time and not always suffer bad consequences...but there are risks.

Otherwise people see their friends taking drugs and having fun and NOT ruining their lives forever, and they start to believe nothing the government says, because according to them it's all negative, which isn't true at all.

[Mr.Speedy]

How pathetic...

Swim and the Swiys have been lowered to the rank of dumb beasts while it's their own system that messes everything up.Next year they're gonna put Swius in concentration camps maybe?They would better make shows like spuiten & slikken in the Netherlands.Instead showing this crap making Swiu look as "not human" they would better point out the real dangers and how to deal with them like drinking enough water etc.Swim has seen more people drop down or crash while driving from alcohol overdose than X(He means WAY more)or whatever dope.I hate this crap so much that it doesn't even make me p*ssed of anymore.
Now Swim's going to light his soapbar,take a puke and then crawl back in his zoo...

[Evil GIR]

http://www.thenook.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/bleah.gif

That vid makes me feel sick, I just wish the people who are involved in this kind of brainwashing propaganda would curl up and die some where.

Fuck Frank, I wish i had the funds to start a massive anti-frank bill board campaign.

[Bajeda]

It feels particularly appropriate to mention Richard L. Miller's book Drug Warriors and Their Prey: From Police Power to Police State in this thread. It compares Germany's repression and ostracization of the Jews to the US's ongoing attempts to distinguish drug users from the rest of society to legitimize their oppression. The analogy works well in this case, even though I feel comparisons of people/policies to the Nazis are overused at times.

The tools at Talk to Frank seem to have gone a step further and tried to make it seem like drug users aren't even really human with the whole Animal Planet documentary style. I love the combination of verbal ambiguity with negatively connotative visuals in the video. I don't know if they are trying to use tongue-in-cheek humour to connect with their target audience, trying to manipulate perceptions of drug use more subtly by being less explicit, or both. Like the "pill-eater" whom the video narrator said was 'enjoying his dance' while the guy looks like an extra for a zombie movie except without the make-up. It doesn't look like he is really enjoying himself, but then again I've never seen someone rolling with an expression like that.

Argh, its videos like these that raise my blood pressure!

[enquirewithin]

Not surprised that David Attenborough didn't want to do the voice over. Silly videos like that are not going to do much to inform the public. Where is the abusive alcohol drinker, trying to drive home? The cancerous cigarette smoker...?

The blog entry which accompanies it isn't exactly thoughtful. (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/organgrinder/2008/01/david_attenborough_isnt_the_fi.html#comments)

Well, I found it funny. But then I'm 32.

That's sad. Brain death at 32!

[Paracelsus]

Why is this in drug news?

[Whit]

Why is this in drug news?

Urrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. .......................

If you actually look at the link it's a news article!?!?
:applause:

[Evil GIR]

Did anyone actualy think this ad looks a bit like skins ?

I think all the kids that are into skins, i reccon alot will just rip this ad to bits.
Skins makes drugs and sex looks fun, this ad just looks retarded.

[Whit]

Hey man.

Hadn't heard of skins until I read your post. Going give it a go... got it on the download now.

Cheers for teh heads up! You seen it? Any good?

Whit

[Evil GIR]

Yeah, its not bad, guess its made more for teenagers though.
It basicaly involves, drugs, sex and partys all set in bristol.

Now having been to a few partys in bristol I can totaly relate to that show, its totaly
like what bristol is.

[MrG]

AAAAAAAAARGH!!!!! I am so pissed off at how ridiculous that ad is!

Yet again the only people who'll be taken in by that crap will be the right-wing and/or ignorant!

Why do none of the people on Drugs(tm) seem to be having a good time? If nobody enjoyed taking Drugs(tm) then nobody would take Drugs(tm) !

As for it being dangerous for the "young stoner" who "may" have chosen to mix his drugs (the tits were spread with peanut butter! - http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27010 ) the only danger from mixing booze and dope is getting a whitey and having to hug the toilet for a couple of hours!

Fuckers.

[Nucking Futs]

Hi all,

Last night I visited a british (indipendant) government web site dedicated to drugs. Under LSD there is a sentance that runs goes >>>> And until you take a tab of acid you can't tell how strong it is or how it's going to affect you. >>>

Whilst I agree you can't tell what LSD will do to you on a given occasion the first point IMO is mis information. Ok so I'm being anal but this subject must be delt with as correctly as possible.

It IS possible to know the amount of LSD by testing in a lab. Although this is out of reach of the majority of users it is still a fact that there are ways to know.

I have emailed the site concerned and thus far had no response. A phone call will be made after this is writen.

My question is am I being counter productive in my efforts or is this a valid point?

Regards,

Cai.

[aerozeppelin123]

I think what would be a much more relevant point is that it is precisely BECAUSE of the government's prohibitive laws that you can't tell how much LSD there is on a tab - if it were a regulated product you could know the exact dosage. It very much annoys me when talk to frank and websites like that from the government use dangers created by their own laws to dissuade people from taking drugs.

[Nucking Futs]

I think what would be a much more relevant point is that it is precisely BECAUSE of the government's prohibitive laws that you can't tell how much LSD there is on a tab - if it were a regulated product you could know the exact dosage. It very much annoys me when talk to frank and websites like that from the government use dangers created by their own laws to dissuade people from taking drugs.

Hello,
Where I agree with the point you have made the site in question is a information/help site and as such any argument about the legality of any drugs would be a waste of time. Trying to get them to display the correct information is the key and all one can hope to achive through this web site. Needles to say I will be having quiet a few discusions with frank regarding this.

Regards,

ME.

[aerozeppelin123]

Yeah good point, definitely put up on DF any responses you get from anything you ask them though. As for the LSD testing, I think the point about lab analysis would be too farfetched to be worth mentioning - the site is aimed at the average Joe who just buys his drugs and pops them in his mouth, not the handful of people that have access to sophisticated chemical testing labs.

So I wouldn't say you're being counterproductive, just that it would be a far too minor point for them to mention on a site that aims to provide concise and relevant information on the dangers of different drugs.

[Paracelsus]

I would say that the site is making a valid point. It follows the classical "you can't know what it is, how much there is, and how it's going to affect you" strategy, which is essentially true, although often dramatized.

[The Secret Farmer]

It IS possible to know the amount of LSD by testing in a lab. Although this is out of reach of the majority of users it is still a fact that there are ways to know.



Just like ecstasy pills. Which is yet another argument for their decriminalisation.

[Alfa]

Threads merged.

[Nose Dive]

I'm not really proud of this but my Bill spoke to Frank whilst on Ketamine and challenged them to find something bad about it. To be fair, they tried their best. They said it can play with your breathing and that if you hurt yourself you wouldn't be able to feel it. My Bill said 'Ok, I'm lying on a bed, I don't need the toilet and I'm not smoking. Am I in danger?'. They said 'Yes! You could... Choke... on...vomit?'
Bill replied 'I am not nauseous in any way.'
Then they said 'It's.... still dangerous! Stop playing around, it's not funny!'
And hung up. Frank couldn't carry an argument in a bucket.

[Alfa]

Talk to Frank launches pocket-sized magazine

28-Feb-08
4432

Talk to Frank, the Government drugs campaign, is launching a pocket-sized magazine in partnership with 20th Century Fox, MySpace and CD WOW!

The fold-out magazine, which will launch on February 29, will be called The Score and will target 11 to 16 year olds. It will be distributed through the Frank information bus - which tours schools - as well as in youth clubs, through street teams and offline partners. It will have a print run of 300,000 and will also be available as a download.

Billington Cartmell, the integrated marketing agency which created the campaign, says its partners were chosen "to resonate with the youth market".

Robin Shelley, senior account manager at Billington Cartmell, says: "This is the biggest individual piece of activity we have created for Frank and it really allows us to talk to young people on their terms."

The agency says the magazine will feature competitions, reviews on "the subjects that matter most" to the youth market. It will also feature information on how to access Frank's drug advice service.

The first issue will feature free downloads from music download site 7digital, free currency for eBay-owned Swapitshop and a two-for-one cinema voucher.

Billington Cartmell was appointed through COI to handle the account in March last year. It is currently looking for brands to partner for the magazine's next quarterly edition.

[Fantasian]

Has noone picked up on the fact that if the true dangers and true posatives were shown and informatively given about drugs. A massive majority of people would choose to take them, illegal or not. I think an essential part of "FRANK'S" stratergy is to demonize and missinform in order to try to reduce the numbers of drug takers. Or at least attempt to stop the mssive influx of new drug takers every year. If my task was to dramatically reduce the number of drug takers i'd try all sorts of stratergy's to do so. It's the same principle as telling a child if his keeps pulling that silly face the wind will change and it'll get stuck like that. Using the lack of knowledge and information to the advantage in order to exploit ones needs or desires.

[Nose Dive]

My stratergy would be to make them leagal. That way you'd stop a lot of clueless teenagers trying to rebel by doing something illegal just to piss daddy off because he didn't buy that new car for them. Well, maybe not exactly like that but you catch my drift. They'd be seen to be the norm and therefore probably not as 'life threatening' and 'dangerous' as they'd first seem.

[Fantasian]

My stratergy would be to make them leagal. That way you'd stop a lot of clueless teenagers trying to rebel by doing something illegal just to piss daddy off because he didn't buy that new car for them. Well, maybe not exactly like that but you catch my drift. They'd be seen to be the norm and therefore probably not as 'life threatening' and 'dangerous' as they'd first seem.


Maybe so, but abuse of any drug including alcohol leads to many injuries and deaths. SWIF has worked on A+E and seen the damage alcohol related events can cause. If drugs were legalised while you'd cure many problems like that of drugs being cut with all sorts of adulterants or people being exploited i imagine if drugs were legalised you'd end up with a large group of people abusing them both from lack of knowledge and also from that old "just trying to get really battered" and therefore more problems from another angle. In the UK the NHS is under a great deal of stress already without the problem of legalised drug use. It's a whole other argument and a difficult one at that, im not even sure on which side of the line i stand. But lets be careful to get too far off topic :)

[Nose Dive]

But lets be careful to get too far off topic :)
You're totally right about what you said aswell but for fear of losing the thread completely:
Frank is crap!