Depression, psychotherapy, and hallucinogens

[fatmanstan]

Alright, first off, I know that drugs aren't a cure for depression. I also know that it is generally unwise to take psychoactive drugs while dealing with mental issues such as depression. The following deals with hypothetical situations, and in no way would human testing and experimentation take place.

Anyway, SWIM has read alot on the subject on the use of psychedelics in conjunction with psychotherapy with great success. SWIM has someone close to him (SWIS) that is dealing with depression and social anxiety. It has affected both of their lives, and SWIM is worried that, if left unresolved, it will also affect the children. SWIM knows SWIS has issues that SWIS has trouble dealing with because of unconscious mental walls. Both SWIS and SWIM know that if these issues were resolved, SWIS could move on with life. However, SWIS is too involved in life-game play to be allowed to explore these issues. SWIM (and as of recently, SWIS as well) believes that it may be possible to "break down these walls" to get inside these problems from an objective point-of-view to work through these issues. SWIS is relatively experienced (in the past) with hallucinogens (ie has the ability to work through and integrate difficult experiences).

Both SWIM and SWIS are very anti-antidepressants, have experienced friends who were "no longer there" after medication. Professional therapy is a difficult option because of location, which could be made to work if there was absolutely no other way. SWIM also believes in the power of using psychedelics in conjuction with therapy for vastly improved results, and thanks to the world wide crusade of the American Government, it would be hard, if not impossible to find a suitable practitioner. SWIM knows that with an improper set and setting, there is a possibility to make things worse. SWIM also knows from extensive person experience that difficult experiences can sometimes be the most beneficial to working through problems. SWIM has extensive experience as a trip guide and is fairly confident he could learn to handle this situation properly and delicately.

SWIM has asked me to find information regarding psychotherapy in conjuction with psychedelics. All possible information, proper set and setting, preparation, hazards, possible benefits/pitfalls, dealing with issues that may arise, integration, etc. would be beneficial. I was wondering if anyone out there knows of any links to this type of information, or has any advise to give. Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the pros/cons of a few high-dose, breakthrough sessions versus many psycholytic (lower-dose) sessions? Believe me, things will not proceed until SWIM and SWIS are *well* prepared, and only then if possible benefits outweights the possible costs. Neither will rush into this "just to see if it will work".

SWIM wonders if anyone would have any opinion on whether psilocybin or mescaline would be a better material (due to availability, LSD would not an option). SWIM knows of research involving psilocybin in regards to depression, and has also done alot of research into the use of peyote in the NAC. SWIM has also heard of using MDMA (possibly MDMCAT?) prior to, and following sessions to aid in integration. Any thoughts?

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Until then, SWIM and I will continue our own research into this subject.

Thanks

[Solidly-here]

There are 100s of research papers on using Psychedelics. For several years, Psychiatrists used LSD to induce powerful catharsis in their patients.

One Doctor described LSD as: "10 years of psychotherapy wrapped up in a 4-hour trip."

If a person wants to take a hallucinogen for Recreational purposes, it can usually BE a recreational endeavor. If a person takes a hallucinogen for Spiritual (or psychological) purposes, he can (possibly) have a break-through Trip, where answers to Life's problems are seen and felt.

I will speak from experience. I have suffered from Depression most of my Life (at least since age 9). I had psychotherapy, but with limited success. Then, one day I dropped a Triple-Hit of LSD. I looked at myself, and saw that I was draining my Life-essence away with my Depression. I saw how silly it was. I laughed. The whole episode was over in 30 seconds.

Since that Magical day, I have not been depressed. I have days when I feel down, but THAT is NOT anywhere near what I used to feel (and feel for a long time).

I have known several other people who also claim to have been Depressed for years, who have been "cured" of their Depression.

Offering a "prescribed" Dose is un-important. If a healing occurs, it just occurs. When my heart is ready to accept something, then that is the time that my heart CAN accept a Life-lesson. It's as simple as that.

[fatmanstan]

Thank you very much SH, I was hoping to hear something like that. Can I ask if there was any type of "special preparation" involved, or did things just sort of happen on their own?

[Jatelka]

SWIM knows exactly where Solidly-Here is coming from. She had been troubled by depression since her early teens, and had struggled to function emotionally, despite a succesful job, loving partner, supportive family etc etc.

She had a complete breakthrough age 23 after taking LSD (the first time after a long break, after previously using psychadelics in a very dysfunctional and self-hating way). It was not a planned thing (in the sense that she did not think "I'm going to deal with my issues today by taking acid") but subconsciously she had been leading up to it for a long time (maybe it would have happened without LSD?) So when her partner said "how about it?" she thought FUCKIT.

It was a very organic and magical experience, although by no means plain sailing. She had the support and love of her wonderful partner who helped guide her through some exceedingly painful insights. When the breakthrough came it was such a relief that she had finally been able to work through (wade through?) all the SHIT.

SWIM does not put her change in outlook entirely down to LSD. She had started using MDMA a year or so earlier and had already experienced some very profound changes in particular with regards to her self-image and her acceptance of fundamental psychological traits. She believes that the MDMA experiences were essential to the LSD breakthrough.

SWIM has always maintained that you should never alter your consciousness for a specific purpose. Just go with the flow, see what happens, go where it takes you etc etc.

She has (of course) ignored her own advice on many occasions! And she continues to do so.

Recently she has tried to approach tripping in a more "inward-looking" way, and tried to think beforehand on what she might want from the experience. She does not necessarily regard this as looking for a "specific purpose" but does feel that she gets more from the experience. Dare she say that she has become more spiritual?

SWIY obviously cares deeply about SWIS. This is the fundamental thing.

She has no advice re mescaline or peyote (has never done either). With regards to dose (high vs low) her gut instinct is "not high-dose" but she has no evidence to back that up at all.

[Solidly-here]

Jatelka shared: "It was not a planned thing (in the sense... "I'm going to deal with my issues today by taking acid") but subconsciously she had been leading up to it [a psychological break-through] for a long time."

Thanks Jatelka, for your powerful Post. It made me feel proud. Proud of you, proud of me, and proud that LSD is around, for such miracles to happen.

This is the same about how I felt. I was unhappy with my long-time Depression, but I did not plan to get rid of it. The Main reason I didn't try to change, was: I didn't think it was possible, not after most of my Life living like that.

That said, I WAS looking for a reason to have more fun in my Life. That Trip day, I wrote-down a few thoughts, and a few wishes. What I planned for that Trip was: "Realize that when I am having fun, that I get deeply into that fun."

What happened, instead, was a Vision of myself: I was standing. I was smiling. I was looking at my Life (which was written in a little book). I read one page after another. Each page had smudges (my Depression) on it. The smudges were over some of my better times.

I heard a noise. I looked at my leg. I noticed that white liquid was oozing out of my knee. At that moment I realized that the liquid was my Life-essence. The reason it was oozing away was my Depression. I jolted into compassion for myself. I thought: "Why do you waste your Life-essence by playing a Depressed person?" Well, I am tired of losing it. I can stop, if I want.

I thought: "Do I want to stop?" . . . I laughed heartily ("Of course I do"). I laughed some more: It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

Then my Trip moved to another area. The next morning, I felt OK. The blessing of a good Trip. The next day I felt good. Within a couple days, I realized that I had been healed. My Depression had lost its reason to be there. Oh, happy days.

That being said, (after my first few Trips) I prepare for each Trip. I write down some things that I would like to think about during my Trip. Careful planning just makes a Trip more rewarding.

Even if your friend doesn't find the absolute cure for Depression, other areas in his/her Life can be improved. When one goes into the new World of Tripping, it is best to allow the experience to go where it wants to (without being displeased that you aren't getting into the exact area you want). Good planning, though, is beneficial for rewarding times.

[fatmanstan]

Jatelka, Solidly-here,

I know I am not looking for inspiration about certain possibilities, because I know that everything that will happen will be personal and unique, but thank you both very much for what you have told me. Believe me, it will be put to good use.

I know deep down that Swim, deep down, has a strong belief in the possible benefits these substances, in the proper set and setting, can provide. He has been looking for everything he can find regarding optimizing this purpose, and had been wondering if it was *really* possible, looking more for confirmation lately than anything else. He knows now that he might be on the right road, or at least be able to find that road, given that it actually does exist.

Thanks again,
FMS

[Hellian]

Small doses of Salvia are great for their anti-depression activity!

[Micklemouse]

Small doses of Salvia are great for their anti-depression activity!

Expand please?

[HazeInMyBong]

SWIM has found salvia to be useless for the soul.

If you are really depressed I deffinately do not recomend an earth shatering experience. It could prove to be benificial but no one here is claming to be a psychologist, you would not want to muck up an experiment dealing with someone's fragile psyche.

Mushrooms would be an interesting choice. You could get away with dosage as high as a dub in my opinion. I would recomend a group project thought and to loosely base the experiment on self exploration and beterment. Just sit around with a group of close friends take your sacrement and go with the flow. Thats all psychotherapy really is, controlled chatter. You take an idea and go with it.

MDMA would be a more direct approach. It breaks down walls. Get a group of close friends got together to talk about their problems on rolls. Sometimes just talking helps. Get some things off your chest. Especially since your friend suffers from a social anxiety, I have simmilar issues. It feels good to be sociable.