Mixing Benzodiazepines

[Dopamine]

i juss popped 2 15 Mg temazepam and im feelin pretty good and im wondering if it would be a bad idea to pop a nitrazepam 10 mg

[Dopamine]

im gonna take it sooon if no one replys....i dont mean to be a bitch im a little f**ked at the moment

[NukaCola]

as you should know from the manual, mixed different benzos add up, and I'm not sure if 25 mg is within bounds of a safe dose.

[hollywood]

Don't

[Geetered]

go for it... its hard too OD on benzo's as long as alcohole

[sexybabe04]

i was wondering if anyone has ever taken those two (xanex and valium) together. and if you have what happened??

[Gahaba22]

Valium and xanax are very similar drugs. Valium is a longer acting benzo with some muscle relaxing properties. You have to be more careful of rebound anxiety and withdrawals from xanax. Taking them together would not make any sense.



geeb

[relax]

FIX THIS! I and my doc are looking to replace Klonopin 2mg three times a day w/ something else, also strong, as I am getting a tolerance. Would temazepam be a good one? Is it readily prescribed?

[OneDiaDem]

As your doctor should have told you, benzodiazepines build up tolerance rather quickly. You can certainly try switching medications, but with myself, I have found that going without them for a monthis the only way my tolerance to them decreases. I take 4 mg xanax daily, and end up going down to 1mg for a couple months. I have tried to replace them with valium and a couple others, to no avail. Good luck.

[Bluelight25]

I have a neurologist/pharmo friend who recently solved this little issue for me with Alprazolam. [For my anxiety] The effective mechanisms of tolerance work like this, Body and Brain- to take Xanax/Alpraz for ex:


Brain: "Wow, there sure is alot of GABAativation happening around here! Time to cut back production." [tolerance]


Body/Liver: "Wow,[for want of a more descriptive analogy] -"there sure is alot of Xanax floating around here lately! Let me make some anti-Xanaxenzymesto even this shit out." [Tolerance, part II]


But the primary problem is the repetative nature of"so-and-so" a day on the receptors. Tolerance is based on REPETITION in linear sequence.So, what you have to do -"trick your brain"byintroducing a progressively alterednon-linear sequence. Like dance steps: 2,3,1,0,2,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1,3,0,0,1,2,2, 0,2,3 [2 pills, 3 pills,1 pill, no pills, two pills, two pills, 1 pill, 3 pills, 2 pills, 1 pill...you get the idea.]


Incidentally, Benzos are are horrible solution to the problem of Anxiety by definition, though they are, without doubt, my Fav. Anxiety is CHRONIC, the activity of benzos is ACUTE: Dependency, inevitable.

[WhiteRyan]

TIP: Even though this is only zanex and valium, stay as far away as you can from mixing drugs lost buddy's over that bullshit

[izzy_green]

That is what i call logic thinking,nice work!gonna trythat!http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley1.gifhttp://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley4.gifhttp://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/smileys/smiley32.gif

[wlee]

Thinking of combining Klonopin and Xanax anybody have any experience with this? Or is this just asking for trouble? (well, i know the Obvious risks but...)

[QGdoxl]

I took some clonazapam on sunday and today is the first day I can
recall everything. the lst three days were hell. Aparently
I went to work and was sent home. I have no recolection of this.



I think they are strong enough alone. my $.02

[Nahbus]

Hey I was wondering if it's bad to mix different benzos, particularly valium and ativan. Thanks, peace.

[Red_Baran]

swim mixed xanax and valium (huge amounts) for months with no problems, although swim probly wouldn’t recommend it, it probley causes a lot of respirator depression<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

[wingsofazrael]

swim has mixed xanax and ativan before...and probably xanax and halcion, maybe. that was a few years backthough if swim remembers correctly. viva la halcion!

[Nahbus]

After reading that ibuprofen (600-800mg) taken 30mins before benzos produces a "dope-like effect" (still trying to find an answer to this), it got SWIM thinking. Are there any other benzo combinations that produce stronger/different/unusual effects? Besides the common combos (benzo + marijuana, benzo + alcohol, etc), what else is there? Thanks.

[IHrtHalucingens]

Benzos and DXM has been a fun experience for SWIM a few times. Just be careful with the benzo used as well as doses, SWIM took too much xanax and ended up forgetting how much DXM he took and dosing way higher than he wanted to. All in all it was alot of fun though. Also mind you they both have CNS depressant qualities so shoot low for both doses and be smart.

[Benzeneringz]

Benzodiazepines compliment narcotic analgesics very nicely, but beware of respiratory (sp) depression. Keep the doses low.

[IHrtHalucingens]

Benzos and caffien is a new favorite combo for SWIM, aloows for euphoria but not sedation.

[BlueMystic]

Please be careful when mixing benzo's with other CNS depressants. As the combination can very well be lethal. There are many combinations that can yield 'positive' results. At any rate. Always start with low dosages on all new substances and new combinations.

[Benzeneringz]

I'm kickin' myself for forgetting this: omeprazole (Prilosec) + a benzodiazepine = a significant reduction in benzodiazepine clearance. This means you're benzo will achieve a higher blood/plasma concentration and increase the half-life of the benzo. I'm including an article from Entrez Pubmed on the topic.

The proton pump inhibitors (PPIs) are the most effective antisecretory agents used to treat acid-related disorders. As such, they are frequently prescribed for patients who are concurrently using other medications. PPIs may interact with other drugs through numerous mechanisms. The most important include competitive inhibition of hepatic cytochrome P (CYP) 450 enzymes involved in drug metabolism, and alteration of the absorption of other drugs via changes in gastric pH levels. Poor metabolizers, who lack CYP2C19, may be particularly predisposed to drug interactions. Although the potential for drug interactions is high, few clinically significant interactions have been reported for the PPIs. Nevertheless, caution is indicated when certain drugs are co-prescribed with these agents. The incidence of clinically significant drug interactions increases proportionately with the number of drugs taken and with the age of the patient. The drug interaction with the greatest clinical importance is the reduction in benzodiazepine clearance by omeprazole.

--Division of Gastroenterology, Stanford University School of Medicine, CA, USA. MAY 13th, 2001

Listen, SWIM has mixed temazepam and omeprazole on several different occasions and from what I can tell it is the perfect mixture.. and not with just temazepam, either! It appiles to all benzodiazepinesupercooldrugs. That's my two cents. There are many many other pharmacology issues that could be exploited with all sorts of drugs. Folks I'm making myself sound like a stuck-up ass when I say this, but...ALWAYS feel free to PM me in reguards to anything posessing pharmacologically active. Why? Because I garuntee I am MUCH more educated in the fields of pharmacology and organic chemistry than some of these idiots who make me shake my head.

Sorry for the violent tone, it's DEFINATLY NOT from eating and sniffing anything.. ESPICALLY temazepam.
-Benzene

[Forthesevenlakes]

After reading that ibuprofen (600-800mg) taken 30mins before benzos produces a "dope-like effect" (still trying to find an answer to this), it got SWIM thinking. Are there any other benzo combinations that produce stronger/different/unusual effects? Besides the common combos (benzo + marijuana, benzo + alcohol, etc), what else is there? Thanks.
What SWIM wants to know is...is there any credence to ibuprofen having psychoactive activity at all? As a cox enzyme inhibitor, SWIM doesnt think there should be any way it can potentiate other drugs or get one high, but has heard plenty of people say they catch a buzz off it, or that its great mixed with vicodin...SWIM's best guess is that the placebo effect is still an effect, but if anyone can give a definitive scientific answer to this, it'd be much appreciated.

[shocker1369]

Hi. SWIM has been taking xanax and valium together now for a few nights and they love the feeling. the first night they took five 5 mg valiums and three 1 mg xanax. the second night they took two 5 mg valiums and two 10mg valiums and four 1 mg xanax. now they just have a few questions. first, would they get higher just taking 10 mg valiums and 2 mg xanax bars instead of mixing it up with 5 mg valiums and 10 mg valiums and 1 mg xanax? like for example, on the second night would they have gotten higher just taking three 10 mg valiums and two 2 mg xanax bars instead of two 5 mg valiums two 10 mg valiums and four 1 mg xanax? second, is generic and strong as brand name because they get mixed answers on that. and third, would they get higher taking more valium and less xanax (like they have been), more xanax than valium, or equal? like what is a good ratio? Sorry for all the questions, they t really need to know and thanx alot for any help.

[Jatelka]

Before proceeding further you must READ THE RULES. They are here...

http://www.drugs-forum.co.uk/forum/misc.php?do=cfrules

Do NOT incriminate yourself. Use SWIM (Someone Who Isn't Me) or something similar when discussing extra-curricular activities. Bear in mind that not abiding by the rules here can and WILL get SWIY banned.

Thankyou

[monkeyman]

Looking for euphoric what level should swim does at. Swim regulary takes 6-8mg Lorazepam and swim now wants to add midazolam. Any method expect intraveneous would be acceptale for swim.

[monkeyman]

**bump**

[Jatelka]

Cut n pasted from another post:

"SWIJ has a single recreational experience of midazolam (iv).

She had a trusted sitter and the dose was titrated carefully. She was benzo naive at the time and used approx 1mg every 5 mins until 6mg were reached: At this point she was euphoric, sedated and having auditory and "thought process" hallucinations. She felt very sexual. Her sitter (female) reports that she was rather "frisky" also;)

The entire experience lasted approx 45 mins, with about an hour of grogginess after and a headache shortly after that. A degree of amnesia was present, but she retained the flavour of her experience. With hindsight this was an incredibly stupid and dangerous thing for her to do and certainly not an experience she would repeat."

Lorazepam for SWIJ was never a fun benzo. Far too much amnesia and fuzzy head/hangover effect the next day.

[brook]

"I'm kickin' myself for forgetting this: omeprazole (Prilosec) + a benzodiazepine = a significant reduction in benzodiazepine clearance. This means you're benzo will achieve a higher blood/plasma concentration and increase the half-life of the benzo"

This is VERY interesting indeed!! this will be tried by swim in the very near future i expect!!

[delphinen]

After eating an hamburger to ease his stomach, he took TWO 2,5mg Lorazepam pills, 2 mg Clonazepam pills, ONE 2mg Flunitrazepam pill, ONE 350mg Carisoprodol pill and TWO 50mg Tramadol pills.

What he has in his stash is more Diazepam, Clonazepam, Lorazepam, Alprazolam, Flunitrazepam and Seroquel (this is not a benzo, I know its an antipsychotic)

should he take more to get a NICE BUZZ or it should be enough with what he took? he has already a little-medium tolerance to Benzos.

Thanks in advance

[trptamene]

I would be hesitant to give an answer.

Only someone who isn't you knows their body/mind and is in a much better position to make the decision, unless there is sometype of drug-drug interaction that swiy and I don't know about that jumps out from this page. That's a lot of drugs, and with each new one the risk of un-foreseen interactions increases exponentially.

If someone is happy with where they're at then why mess with it? (swim knows, easier said than done, particularly on benzos)

[delphinen]

The experience was positive :)

[trptamene]

The experience was positive :)

Is an experience report in order? These write-ups are good for the site.


POSTS THAT ARE VALUED

1.) Posting your experience of a drug:

When posting your experience with a drug or multiple drugs, please consider to make your description as complete as possible. To do this you
can describe:

What drug(s) you took.
How much you took.
In what setting, environment you took it.
The time after you first noticed effects. (also called onset)
The duration of the main effects.
The duration of the secondary effects.
If there where any side effects, mentally or physicially.
Time when effects where gone.
Aftereffect, like afterglow, etc.
Overall conclusion and rating of the experience.

We are not expecting you to write a lengthy dissertation, just a short summary of experiences.

2.)Posting drug information:

How to process a particular drug
-Materials( tools and supplies)
-Preperation;
-Process&amp ;nbs p;&nbs p;
-Application;
-Trouble-shooting& nbsp;& nbsp;
-Resources and reference data

Cultivation Information
Information on drug laws
Information on drug culture
Upcoming drug-friendly events
etc. ...

[JaWill88]

to swim that seems like a lot of benzos to do at once. swims favorite is 2mg of clonazepam (Klonopin). he is feeling awesome. or like 40mg of diazepam (Valium). swim tends to like the medium - long acting benzos when by its self. they last longer and arent as intense. alprazolam (Xanax) is too short and strong for swim it seems hard to get the right dosage. its either too low and swim isn't high or its too high and swim is just knocked out. only thing alprazolam is good for is a comedown from stimulants.

[PillJunkieXL]

Good? Bad? SWM has 90 0.5MG xanax and 50 10MG valium. Would mixing the two be bad? anyone done it?

[Stuck]

SWIM just mixed 1mg xanax with 1mg lorazepam today. He fell asleep.

SWIY'll probably fall asleep. Not recommended at all.

[Laudaphun]

i juss popped 2 15 Mg temazepam and im feelin pretty good and im wondering if it would be a bad idea to pop a nitrazepam 10 mg


I'm guessing that as his join date was 2004 and this post was from 2004 and he's made 14 or so posts since then that he no longer visits this site... but anyways. SWIM wishes he was still an active poster so he could comment on which he found more euphoric 30mg dose of temazepam or 10mg dose of nitrazepam as he seemed to have access to both. But anyways, SWIM never really cared much for combining different substances that fall within the same category... such as benzos and benzos.. opiates and opiates... stimulants and stimulants... ect It always seemed to take the quality alway from the euphoria and make more of simply a dopey feeling or what have you. With that being said, SWIM does however rather enjoy certain combos of different TYPES of drugs.

[psyche]

What SWIM wants to know is...is there any credence to ibuprofen having psychoactive activity at all? As a cox enzyme inhibitor, SWIM doesnt think there should be any way it can potentiate other drugs or get one high, but has heard plenty of people say they catch a buzz off it, or that its great mixed with vicodin...SWIM's best guess is that the placebo effect is still an effect, but if anyone can give a definitive scientific answer to this, it'd be much appreciated.

This'd be interesting for SWIM too. The only thing that comes to his mind is that by inhibiting the COX-enzyme it reduces the amount of anandamide metabolised to a prostaglandin derivative. Only the effects of the endocannabinoid are greatly less dramatic than the cannabinoids found in the flora, and I think the extra-anandamide doesn't make that much difference, right? Better theories, anyone..?

[Laudaphun]

hydrocodone/ibuprofen works much better for pain than hydrocodone/acetaminophen... or at least SWIM's case... the ibuprofen version 7.5/200 works better than the 7.5/500 or whatever other versions they make containing 7.5 hydro and XYZ amount of Acetaminophen. SWIM is talking about in terms of pain relief... SWIM recalls no difference in euphoria.

[Laudaphun]

SWIM just mixed 1mg xanax with 1mg lorazepam today. He fell asleep.

SWIY'll probably fall asleep. Not recommended at all.

Would SWIY care to compare and constrast a 1mg dose of each taken independantly of one another? SWIM's psychiatrist suggested ativan for anxiety attacks but has had limited experience with lorazepam (ativan).

[hgwell]

mixing klonopin and xanax? Anyone ever done it, is it a good combo, is it safe?

[Laudaphun]

It depends on the dosages and the person.

However, it would not be unheard of for a dr. to prescribe someone clonazepam to take on a daily basis along with a small quantity of alprazolam to be used for acute instances such as an anxiety attack. The reason would be that the clonazepam is a longer acting benzo and should prevent anxiety/panic and the alprazolam which is much shorter-acting would be used per chance an anxiety attack still happened. I doubt this would be very common practice though, as one benzo should be sufficient.

On a side note, SWIM once was accustomed to a single dose of 2mg alprazolam per day(she was tolerant) typically taken in the late afternoon/evening. A friend who was prescribed 1mg clonazepam pills x3 daily gave SWIM one to try once. So SWIM held onto it until one day SWIM began to have an anxiety attack, and since it was early in the day SWIM didn't want to take her typical 2mg alprazolam dose so she decided to give the single 1mg clonazepam a try. It was effective at reducing the anxiety within an hour, however no other effects were noted. So later in the day (several hours... 6?) it came to the time that SWIM typically took her 2mg alprazolam, which seemed much stronger than normal. This is only the 2nd time in her life that SWIM has had any experience with clonazepam. Keep in mind that SWIM took 2mg alprazolam daily so she was tolerant. While these are dosages that some people might laugh at, it could likely cause an in-experienced benzo user some problems including amnesia.

[hgwell]

thank you for that information it was helpful

[Steva]

Swim has taken xanax 1mg and valium 20mg on alternate days.
Swim finds xanax more enjoyable but the valium comes in handy
to take a break from xanax and save it for special high stress
situations. The Ashton method (Do a search)
uses both (xanax &valium) to withdraw from swim's high
xanax tolerance which is swim's New Year's rez.

[Psych0naut]

mixing klonopin(clonazepam) and xanax(alprazolam)? Anyone ever done it, is it a good combo, is it safe?

Swim has taken xanax(alprazolam) 1mg and valium(diazepam) 20mg on alternate days.
Swim finds xanax more enjoyable but the valium comes in handy
to take a break from xanax and save it for special high stress
situations. The Ashton method (Do a search)
uses both (xanax &valium) to withdraw from swim's high
xanax tolerance which is swim's New Year's rez.Please always include the chemical name of pharmaceutical drugs( in your posts. This can be easily obtained from Google or other search engine. Doing so will avoid confusion on this international forum. Thank you.

[wearestardust]

Valium and xanax are very similar drugs. Valium is a longer acting benzo with some muscle relaxing properties. You have to be more careful of rebound anxiety and withdrawals from xanax. Taking them together would not make any sense.



geeb

No; they are different types of benzodiazepine. They have different types of action, and should be used for different kinds of condition.
As for mixing them, SWIWAS regularly DOES bcause he is prescribed Xanax for a preventative of panic attack and for the anxiety which he suffers. Diazepam for the effects of an actual attack. Although he prefers greatly BROMAZEPAM to diazepam. They ARE similar types of benzo, both with much longer half-life than alprazolam. They, epecially bromazepam, which in Europe is mostly available as brands LEXAURIN and LEXILIUM, or, in the countries which still permit the prescription of Roche's brands, LEXOTAN or LEXOTANIL, are fast to act and when suffering an attack quickly quell the dreadful symptoms and provide a much-needed calmness, a very pleasant sedation which lasts for a couple of hours (in doses of 12-18mg bromazepam or 20-30mg diazepam). Bromazepam is the faster-acting and has a half-life roughly half of that of diazepam, which has the longest of any benzodiazepine; it also gives the user a much more pleasant and effective sedative feeling. Unfortunately it was deleted from the BNF in 2003 and can no longer be prescribed in the UK, although available in many other European countries of the EU.
Alprazolam works slightly differently. I have to disagree with the poster who maintains that it is a very fast-acting benzo, and then goes on to discuss Rivotril for the anxiety. Where onearth did a 1mg tablet come from though? Rivotril, and I don't think clonazepam is available as a generic, is available only in 500mcg and 2mg strengths. Even the feelings, most polls say that alprazolam is the most pleasant benzo, are different. Jatelka is the one to ask about triazolo-benzos and the other types of 1,4-benzos. My pharmacology is not up to that sort of standard. Perhaps I should invest in a 'Teach Yourself...' book!
WAS

[darkbreed]

SWIM ingested 100mg Chlordiazepoxide (4pills of 25mg) along with 12.5mg (5 pills of 2.5mg) lorazepam and is wondering what he should boost it with.

He has available:
Carisoprodol
Tramadol
Ketazolam
Diazepam
Clonazepam
Midazolam
Alprazolam

Anyone with experience with the mix of any of the already ingested benzos along with any of the medications on the above list of avaialble things?

If so what were he mixes and dosages etc and what effecs?

.Cheers

darkbreed added 160 Minutes and 36 Seconds later...

He decided to add around 100mg tramadol, 15mg midazolam, and some more carisoprodol with a glass or two of beers. He also ingested 2mg alprazollam.

As this time SWIM is very relaxed and ejoyful, somewhat on the not, problems typinh etc..

wanna chill watch a movie cheers

darkbreed added 69 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

Well at this pont SWIM is very sedated, somewhat euphoricm fealing graeat. Opiate like noddingg, Wathin a movir forot what its out and dont understanad a shi...

So thats my report for now onth e abov: workf for me!

Oh and i also ate a midzalom 15mg and 2mg xanax and smoke a join and drink one beer,

[doppey]

SWIM found Clonazepam and Lorazepam to be more warm and "euphoric" combined than with an equal dose of either. Swim recalls installing a carpet one day and falling alseep on it with his boy cause it was so fuzzy.

[bol]

SWIM going to mix lorazepam (2mg) and 5-10mg zolpidem together. SWIY have tried this combo before? ( SWIM don't have benzo/sleeper tolerance )

[Laudaphun]

Figured that SWIM would post an actual report for once.

These doses are not huge, but not for the benzo naive either. SWIM's marmoset takes them everyday so her body is quite accustomed to them, however she tends to keep dosages at the same level, with occasionally taking more. SWIM takes roughly a minimum of 2mg alprazolam or 2-3mg clonazepam or 60mg temazepam... Normally in a once daily dose in the evening, occasionally clonazepam is used during the day for anxiety. Holidays and such, larger doses are consumed, but in normally everyday life... dosages rarely exceed 2-3mg alprazolam/clonazepam (combined) or somethings a 60mg temazepam instead.

Stayed up all night preparing for an exam, keeping the eyes open and mind alert with significantly larger doses of methylphenidate than are customary for SWIM's marmoset. Again, SWIM takes 30-45mg of that each day on average as well so, no crash or anything... just tired from being up all night. Since it was the end of the week and exam was finished, SWIM decided to give her marmoset a little treat... A recreational dose of benzos!

T 0:00 swallowed 2mg alprazolam and 60mg temazepam (stomach is empty)
T 0:13 feel effects already, subtle, but can already tell that the "tired" feeling is going away and being replaced with more of a relaxxed feeling.
T 0:25 hmm.... not sure yet, perhaps the marmoset will try to accomplish something, new bookshelf needs put together.
btw, this is being typed on the spot, at the moment experienced by the mamoset.
T 0:30 The marmoset went to the kitchen to get some dried tropical fruit mix to much on and noticed a slight loss of balance as she turned the corner. Some reason SWIM get's the feeling that this is not going to be a very interesting report. Typically in the past it had been a nice combo...
T 0:44 Gonna post and come back and edit as time passes, marmoset reports noticable-benzo feeling
T 2:00 Muscle cooordination severely suffering (very bad balance)... Definitely much stronger than the first 45 minu aor wha5e
------------------------------------------The next day-----------------------------------------------
T 24:00 Seems the last sentance is the last one typed... SWIM thinks the marmoset went to bed at around T 3:00 - 4:00 max... Memory loss more significant than a comparative equivalent dose of alprazolam alone. From the strength of the effects, it is apparent that recent reductions in daily benzo consumption have had a significant impact on the marmoset's benzo tolerance as in past trials the effects have not been as strong with the same combination of doses. Events recalled from the duration of the T 0:00 - T 3:00 were construction of a utility cart (without flaw), and aquisition of x3 percocet (5mg oxycodone/325mg acetaminophen) which were not consumed, but rather stashed away for a rainy day. A trip to McDonalds with the marmoset's friend where 2 hamburgers were consumed. The marmoset recalls that when her marmoset friend stopped by that she was noticeablly intoxicated. No total amnesia was present, however memory was very fuzzy.

Significant points of interest: It seems that rotating benzos helps prevent tolerance to any particular one as normally a dosage of 2mg alprazolam or 60mg temazepam on it's own will produce very mild effects. The marmoset has drastically reduced consumption of temzepam, replacing it with alprazolam, in effect preserving the effectiveness of temazepam. Also, it should be noted that the marmoset had not slept in the prior 36 hours in preparation for an exam and only x4 doses of clonazepam were taken during this period of 1mg, 1mg, 0.5mg, and 0.5mg in that order spaced out in 4-6 hour intervals. Lingering effects of the small amount of clonazepam might have contributed to the overall effect, along with a significantly larger than usual dosage (2-3 times) of buprenorphine. From T 0:00 until present T 24:00 no additional substances were consumed. Tolerance to benzodiazepines also are likely reduced as work at the university has increased significantly in intensity, therefore prompting the marmoset to reduce consumption of them to prevent hindrance on academic performance. Gauging from the final sentance typed at T 2:00 it is apparent that the marmoset must have been nodding off very early, making it likely that sleep was brought on much closer to T 3:00 than T 4:00.

The marmoset reported less euphoria (actually none recalled at all) than previous trials with this same combination, with the exception of the marmoset's trip to McDonalds where she may recalls that she likely appeared to be "on something" to any observers, but the establishment was relatively vacant of customers at that particular time.

[RX420]

xanax and temazepam is a nice mix.... ( with some oxy thrown in heh)