Which Benzodiazepine to Try Next?

[primal440]

istory... hello to you benzoheads, i like benzos a lot and have access to them, maybe rohypnol being the exception (maybe). I wanna change my current benzo (diazepam - valium) which has been my favorite by now, being replaced by lorazepam - ativanwhich developed high tolerance too quickly and had to take a lot, and before that clonazepam, which is more expensive and it lasts a lot which i like (not like alprazolam - xanax) but i always end up messed up more than i wished, like an amnesiac bastard. Before that I had alprazolam which just put me to sleep, the less preferred of the family no recreational value at all, either i feel mildly relaxed or i go to sleep for 24 hours. So heres the bottom line for you all veterans: I like benzos that last some time, that dont have so much memory issues, my favorite so far has been diazepam i think mixed with a little clonazepam. Please tell me what I should try next... Edited by: primal440

[Sektor]

zopiclone :)

[primal440]

hell, zoplicone is in he same family as zolpidem, which today let me down big time, i took 40 mg and barely felt anything, got the strange thoughts tho but almost no distinguishable visuals. besides its short acting, id rather take something that last more than 4 hours, thanks for the suggestiion though! anybody else with experience can tell me what benzo to choose for my next trials?

[primal440]

well, thanks to everyone for the replies....

[PsyDefects]

u can try some bromazepam, it has a mean half-life of about 20 hrs and comes in 1.5 mg, 3 mg, and 6 mg pills.

[tshady]

temazepam is the one for youhttp://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

[mark_v]

hell, zoplicone is in he same family as zolpidem,
which today let me down big time, i took 40 mg and barely felt
anything, got the strange thoughts tho but almost no distinguishable
visuals. besides its short acting, id rather take something that last
more than 4 hours, thanks for the suggestiion though! anybody else with
experience can tell me what benzo to choose for my next trials?



Zolpidem does shit to me, even at dosages around 50 mg..



But 15 mg Zopiclone and i'm off http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif

[pharmapsyche]

SWIM is a huge benzo fan too, although is sound like SWIM doesn't get them as often as you. All the benzo's you've tried are amazlying beautiful ones. SWIM's favorite is between clonazepam and Alprazolam probably, although SWIM loves them all!


I noticed a few above recommened trying Zolpidem tartrate, and i just wanted to make it clear to you, that Zolpidem (Ambien) is not actually a benzodiazepine, it is classifield as a sedative/hypnotic. Zolpidem has a chemical structure that is different from those of benzodiazepines, barbiturates, or any other drugs with hypnotic properties. Although Zolpidem is not a benzodiazepine, it works and acts a bit similar to drugs classified as benzo's. Zolpidem works by binding to the BZ-1 receptor subtype of the GABAa receptor complez. That specific subtype has alot to do with sleep, which is why Zolpidem is a common prescribed sleep-aid. Although it's not a benzo, it does have recreational use! SWIM enjoy's ambien athough it produces a good amount of memory loss while intoxaced.


But my adivce for a trying a new benzodiazepine would be to try temazepam, it's short-acting but fun while it's there. It's often prescribed for sleeping, but didn't make SWIM to sleepy. Hope I helped.

[Richard_smoker]

I'd recommend Bromazepam if you haven't tried it. Brand name is Lexotan. Can't get this in the USA, however... I think it stopped going through FDA approval because it is supposedly more addictive than other benzos, especially when combined with opiates.

[Raw edge]

Swim has asked me for some advice on Benzos. I do not know which to recommend to him.

Here are his choices

10MG VALIUM
XANAX 1MG
Lorazepam 2mg
KLONOPIN, 2mg
DORMICUM (midazolam) 7.5 mg
MG Bromazepam 6mg
Mogadon 5 mg

Everything above is priced the same as any of the other. The exception is Valium, which costs half as much as the others.
He told me he want to get the maximum bang for his buck. What would Swiy recommend.

[dreamingawake]

take a look at the benzo equivalency chart it'll help you out :)
SWIM likes xanax a whole lot, its a miracle drug. apparently.

[crunchyblack]

2mg Kpins

[Psych0naut]

Swim has asked me for some advice on Benzos. I do not know which to recommend to him.

Here are his choices

10MG VALIUM(diazepam)
XANAX(alprazolam) 1MG
Lorazepam 2mg
KLONOPIN(clonazepam), 2mg
DORMICUM (midazolam) 7.5 mg
MG Bromazepam 6mg
Mogadon(nitrazepam) 5 mg

Everything above is priced the same as any of the other. The exception is Valium, which costs half as much as the others.
He told me he want to get the maximum bang for his buck. What would Swiy recommend.

take a look at the benzo equivalency chart it'll help you out :)
SWIM likes xanax(alprazolam) a whole lot, its a miracle drug. apparently.

2mg Kpins(clonazepam)
Please always include the chemical name of pharmaceutical drugs in your posts. This can be easily obtained from Google or other search engine. Doing so will avoid confusion on this international forum. Thank you.

[UnderFaz]

2 mg clonazepams definitely.

[Beanfondler]

The Xanax (alprazolam) for social adventures, Klonopin(clonazepam) is by far the best personal use benzo available without being required to be entering surgery or something.

Edit:

Read the post two posts above yours.

Swibf noticed the regulatory reminder, but sleep deprivation and a general tweak'id state lead to distortion and for whatever reason Swibf assumed importance was placed on the patented name.

Its a wonder what reality becomes when its experienced without interuption.

[Psych0naut]

The Xanax for social adventures, Klonopin is by far the best personal use benzo available without being required to be entering surgery or something.Read the post two posts above yours.

[truth]

xanax makes SWIM a social butterfly haha

[PoppyHappy]

SWIM would definitely go with the Lorazepam(Ativan), or the clonezapam(Klonipin). SWIM loves benzodiazepines!

[Psych0naut]

Swim has asked me for some advice on Benzos. I do not know which to recommend to him.

Here are his choices

10MG VALIUM
XANAX 1MG
Lorazepam 2mg
KLONOPIN, 2mg
DORMICUM (midazolam) 7.5 mg
MG Bromazepam 6mg
Mogadon 5 mg

Everything above is priced the same as any of the other. The exception is Valium, which costs half as much as the others.
He told me he want to get the maximum bang for his buck. What would Swiy recommend.In reply to SWIY's original post, SWIM knows which source SWIY wants to get these from, a certain overseas pharmacy, hosted in a warm country SWIM shall not name. All the Roche brand drugs they sell are normals brands, the clonazepam is brand name Rivotril, midazolam is brand name Dormicum, bromazepam is brand name Lexotanil and nitrazepam is brand name Mogadon. The brand Klonopin is not the one they sell.

SWIM would go for the Rivotril, since dose for dose they are the strongest tablets 4x stronger than the Valium(diazepam), 2x stronger than the Xanax(alprazolam), 2x stronger than the lorazepam, 4x stronger than the bromazepam and 8x stronger than the Mogadon(nitrazepam)

[cyndi]

Well for sleep, xanax is the best one. For anxiety Klonopin hands down the others swim just doesn't care for.

[doublezero]

Valium, love those bue 10mg

[darkbreed]

Ok I have a nice doctor, he gives me any benzo I want I just gotta name them, heck I've named stuff he havn't even heard of before lol. So I'm trying to test around to find out what benzos give the best effect for me, so suggestions are welcome. He think its a good idea i rotate my benzo use anyway so I dont build up too much tolerance and dependency towards a couple specific ones.

I've gone through all the common ones (and some not so common) like alprazolam, temazepam, diazepam, lorazepam, clonazepam, oaxepam (sp?), flunitrazepam, nitrazepam, midazolam, phenezepam.

So, what benzos do you suggest I try out next, specifically inerested in powerful hypnotic benzos for insomnia, as well as powerful sedatives and muscle relaxants.

Give me your list of benzos worth trying thats not on my list above, or list of any SWIMS for that matter.

Cheers

[Psych0naut]

Not that SWIM would recommend the use of benzo's as he has seen much pain and problems because of it, instead rather the opposite. But to finish off the list ... Some powerful hypnotic benzo's are; Loramet(lormetazepam), Halcion(triazolam), Lendormin(brotizolam). And a weak but really old-skool hypnotic benzo; Dalmadorm(flurazepam). Some anxiolytics which are missing from the list are: Lexotanil(bromazepam), Frisium(clobazam), Tranxene(clorazapate) and the weak but most old-skool of them all; Librium(chloordiazepoxide). There are still plenty of other benzo's which aren't included in my list, but there are literally dozens of different benzo's prescribed around the world, that won't fit in just one post ...

[darkbreed]

Thanks for the list!

I've been researching, experimenting and studying the effects of benzodiazepines for many years now, including using them of course which is why I've gotten into the topic in the first place (I like to know what I put into myself).

Personally, for the conditions I use medications for, benzodiazepines seem to be the safest and least toxic of them all (compared to other things such as opiates, opoioids, various muscle relaxants like soma etc, most painkillers).

Of the ones you list, i'm very familiar with bromazepam just forgot to list it up (well guess the benzos got *some* side-effects, ;)

For the rest of the ones you mention, I looked into lormetazepam just some days ago and was considering trying this one out, I've also thought about triazolam.

The other ones I've heard about but not looked specifically into so thanks, I'll have something to study up on. Oh and btw I always thought Librium was a barbtiruate so thanks for clearing that up :)

[Psych0naut]

Both Triazolam and Brotizolam are very fast acting, very short acting(not more than a hour) knock-out hypnotic benzo's. Lormetazepam is a fast acting, intermediate acting(8-10 hours) hypnotic benzo. All three are highly potent, some of the strongest around.

And as you said, chloordiazepoxide is a benzo. It's often used for withdrawing alcohol addicts, and for benzo tapering schedules. That's the reason I'm on it as well, for tapering my use of benzo's, and to quit all together. For what medical reason does SWIY take that much different benzo's?

[darkbreed]

SWIM takes these amounts of benzos due to several reasons, one is a permanent injury after two car accidents, another one is long term alcoholism, and a third one is from being an ex-needle junkie (heroin, morphine, amphetamine, benzodiazepiens and most other injectables).

SWIM have not injected in 2 years now, and not been drinking in couple months (used to be daily for years). SWIM has decreased the amount of benzo use as well lately, and have 2 different types daily but changes quite frequently what those two daily benzos are as explained in first post above. Once in a while, such as a weekend now and then, SWIM takes an extra amount of benzos "just for the heck of it" instead of drinking or whatever else other people prefer to get wasted on.

SWIM has a supply of benzos that is steadily increasing each time a new prescription is made, which is a good sign, meaning that SWIM currently uses less than what he is actually prescribed to take. Those extra amounts SWIM is left with is saved for those "once and then" benzo binges which do not occur very often.

SWIM would like to add that something he considers a great assistance for decreasing his substance abuse and medical use such as the alcohol and benzos is thanks to Coca leaf chewing. SWIM have lived one year in a country where Coca is common and used as tea, chewed, in foods etc, and is a good medicine as well as source of nutritions. Coca makes SWIM feel fine without the high amount of benzos as earlied needed, so SWIM has reduced his general daily benzo intake from 4 different benzos a day to 2, with several days where benzos are not even taken. Coca is also healthy, not addictive, and also a very excellent replacement for coffee and caffeine as it doesn't have the negative effects that coffe can cause such as jitters, diarreah , etc.

In addition coca has both relaxant and energizing effects, depending on how much is used, and is good for both a nice fresh start in the morning as well as a good sleep in night, and is very effective for bone pains, skeletal displacement problems, rheumatism, digestive problems, headaches and other pains and problems, also psychological problems such as anxiety, nervousness, insomnia, fatigue etc.

SWIM thinks he can replace benzos and alcohol completely with coca alone if he wants. But SWIM do like his occasional benzo knocker, so he doesn't plan to stop his prescription.

[Psych0naut]

Coca leaf is indeed pretty well known in South-America for it's medicinal properties, but's very nice that it has actually helped SWIY to half his benzo dose and even stop taking them alltogether on some days. How does it affect the appetite, does it suppres it, or does it depend on the amount taken?

[Steva]

Swim has tried them all and was raised on tuinal,seconal,placydl and nembutol.
and Quaalude Rorer 714.
In swim's opinion Go for the Xanax 2mg Bars.
Purepack or Greenstone in the USA. Gador in SA.
Swim was also impressed with the 7.5mg Dormicum by Roche aka midazolam.
In Swim's opinion forget diazepam,nitrazepam,clonazepam.
They are good but lack the efficiency of the above mentioned.

[darkbreed]

Well I guess the real answer to which one is best is individually, we all got different body chemistry and brains etc, what works great for some is crap for others etc.

Personally, SWIM said his preferences are:

#1: Rohypnol (Flunitrazepam) Best benzo in effect & usability (can easily be injected, goes amazingly great along with opiates etc, perfect for comedowns on uppers etc, does wonders for psychedelic trips making them more smooth and eliminating bad trips, and much more) Great for sleep, great for getting a good "high"/"kick"

#2: Temazepam - for SWIM pretty similar to flunitrazepam in effects though a bit weaker and not the same kind of good "high". But an excellent benzo no doubt.

#3: Nitrazepam - SWIM used this a lot with joy - he likes the hypnotic benzos.

#4: Clonazepam - SWIM use this more for its medical purpose than recreational, and find it a very good benzo to make SWIM feel "normal" and content and fine, without being drowsy or sedate.

#5: Alprazolam - SWIM enjoys this one too, but find it gives a bit too "stoney" and drowsy effect and less of the euphoric effect of the others above on the list, swim mainly uses this as a sleep aid for a quick knock out when needed.

#6: Diazepam - Nice benzo, makes you quite calm and filled with wellbeing, and excellen muscle relaxant (SWIM has problems with neck and back after car accident) and it also gives a decent effect for recreational use in higher doses.

#7: Bromazepam - In SWIMs experience this is very similar to diazepam and thus more or less shares the same description and should kinda shared place on the list too.

#8: Phenezepam - Great in effects! Effectwise I'd put it up with flunitrazepam. The problem is that its so extremely addictive, and the addiction comes fast and fierce! Hardcore withdrawals from this one, and also one I always ended up doing too much of causing nice blackouts etc. But the positive effects are really good, the problem is the negative ones.

#9 oxazepam - this one is one of the weakes and crappiest benzos i've come across. Hardly any effecs, just somewat drowsy, no recreational use at all for me.

#10 Lorazepam - Puke! What a horror! Unpleasent effects, stoney but not in a nice way, dizzy, and weird after effects like "tracers" etc- worst of all the benzos SWIM tried.

Midazolam: Not ranked yet as SWIM is fairly new to this, only some days of testing. But so far not impressed. Got the 15mg ones, ate up to 3 (45mg) at once without any specific effects, and that was with 2mg of Clonazepam (or was it 4mg hm) and 10mg diazepam along with it. Of course, SWIM did get drowsy and sedated, but no euphoric or specifically good high. However, for the medicinal use, sleep problems, they seem to be great. SWIM took one and let it melt under tounge to take a short one and half hour nap, had the alarm clock on right next to his head on the night table, but it knocked him into such a deep sleep even the alarm clock didnt wake him. And thats an alarm clock that repeats itself several times with some minutes intervals if not deactivated. So tested it couple more times for bedtime, and the conclusion so far is that its a good one for sleep but not much for recreational use.

So this is SWIM's personal list and ranking of benzos. He does find it a bit odd that there are so many reports about midazolam being so great etc, he was rather dissapointed himself after the joy of getting them prescribed so he could finally test them. But I must note SWIM do have a very high tolerance for most drugs , not only benzos, and his brains are perhaps a bit scrambled compared to most others (rearranged some things around in there with various substances through the years - seems the effect is permanent)

Perhaps the list will be altered by time and new explorations - But for now long live the green demon (Rohypnol/Flunitrazepam)

[Redbluffer]

Ok I have a nice doctor, he gives me any benzo I want I just gotta name them, heck I've named stuff he havn't even heard of before lol. So I'm trying to test around to find out what benzos give the best effect for me, so suggestions are welcome. He think its a good idea i rotate my benzo use anyway so I dont build up too much tolerance and dependency towards a couple specific ones.

I've gone through all the common ones (and some not so common) like alprazolam, temazepam, diazepam, lorazepam, clonazepam, oaxepam (sp?), flunitrazepam, nitrazepam, midazolam, phenezepam.

So, what benzos do you suggest I try out next, specifically inerested in powerful hypnotic benzos for insomnia, as well as powerful sedatives and muscle relaxants.

Give me your list of benzos worth trying thats not on my list above, or list of any SWIMS for that matter.

Cheers

From you list in my experience the temezepam(yellow capsules) are the strongest benzos ive taken espcially for sleep..although id advise use extreeme caution in mixing them i know that may sound like an up tight doctor but they are powerful. it also depends on what your taking them for. if its simply just to get high then i cant be much help but if you need hep sleeping the Restoril is very strong and i also have a strong tolerance for pills so...i doubt i helped you but figurd i'd try. Just be careful the line betweeen enough and too much is fairly then and you can die so please be careful.. Good luck mate and I hpe you find something that works for you. Redbluffer...look me up if you can

[JJx23]

There is nothing wrong with the use of Benzos for the right reason. I know you had stated that the Netherlands has a very strict use for certain drugs, but Benzos are a great remedy for the coping of anxiety, insomnia, and certainly muscle spasms. If one isn't abusing the drug, they shouldn't have to worry too much about anything, since one's doctor will safely take them off of them when needed. The only thing SWIM would need to know when taking these medications is that you shouldn't operate heavy machinery because they can slow your response time down.

Regards.

Not that SWIM would recommend the use of benzo's as he has seen much pain and problems because of it, instead rather the opposite. But to finish off the list ... Some powerful hypnotic benzo's are; Loramet(lormetazepam), Halcion(triazolam), Lendormin(brotizolam). And a weak but really old-skool hypnotic benzo; Dalmadorm(flurazepam). Some anxiolytics which are missing from the list are: Lexotanil(bromazepam), Frisium(clobazam), Tranxene(clorazapate) and the weak but most old-skool of them all; Librium(chloordiazepoxide). There are still plenty of other benzo's which aren't included in my list, but there are literally dozens of different benzo's prescribed around the world, that won't fit in just one post ...

[Psych0naut]

Benzo's are often a great remedy for insomnia and anxiety, but they are often chronic ailments, which means medication will often be needed to treat it as well. And long term use of benzo's isn't an option, it doesn't solve anything, and often only makes it worse. I don't condemn benzo's, I know they can be really useful in some situations, but just way too many doctors are a bit too eager with the prescription pad for them. It's really nasty as a patient to find out the hard way, that the medicine your doctor has prescribed to you to take daily for the last 6 months, are addictive benzo's which you, as a patient, don't even know what they are. That won't be true for the members of this forum, as most of them know what benzo's are, but many ordinary people have ended up in horrible withdrawls due to long term prescriptions to drugs they even don't know off what they are. Also, it's well known that benzo's lose their effectiveness against insomnia in a few days and two weeks at the most, and up to a few months for anxiety at the utmost. There are plenty of other alternatives for both ailments which should be tried first, and only use benzo's as a second line treatment.

[JJx23]

Well, that is true, but one can use Benzo's with other types of treatment also. Becoming tolerant to a Benzo can simply be waned down by the patient's doctor so that they won't have to feel the withdrawal symptoms. Most of the time, Benzo's are used for short term care anyway, and I believe many doctors already know about this. It's been proven that many medications have side-effects, and doctors do let their patient's know of these side-effects. The pain center that I go to prescribes opiates, benzos, and barbiturates, all of which were on the few sheets of paper that I signed before I started my treatment program. It tells the patient everything on there, as well as the doctor letting the patient(s) know too. Now maybe I just live in a great area where doctors know what they're doing, or what? The doctors simply look forward into the future, since they already know what they will be doing. I am in proper care, and I feel safe taking my medications, but you have stated that it's very different else-where in the world. This I can tell you, I did not know!

Regards.

Benzo's are often a great remedy for insomnia and anxiety, but they are often chronic ailments, which means medication will often be needed to treat it as well. And long term use of benzo's isn't an option, it doesn't solve anything, and often only makes it worse. I don't condemn benzo's, I know they can be really useful in some situations, but just way too many doctors are a bit too eager with the prescription pad for them. It's really nasty as a patient to find out the hard way, that the medicine your doctor has prescribed to you to take daily for the last 6 months, are addictive benzo's which you, as a patient, don't even know what they are. That won't be true for the members of this forum, as most of them know what benzo's are, but many ordinary people have ended up in horrible withdrawls due to long term prescriptions to drugs they even don't know off what they are. Also, it's well known that benzo's lose their effectiveness against insomnia in a few days and two weeks at the most, and up to a few months for anxiety at the utmost. There are plenty of other alternatives for both ailments which should be tried first, and only use benzo's as a second line treatment.

[soontobedoctor]

well honestly i would suggest you use temazepam for insomnia as its long half life means you wont grow tolerant to it as my shrink told me, clonazepam is another one but i find it to be active after you wake up and it takes a bit to kick in. i hope this will help because hypnotics generally have short half lives and you grow tolerant to them.

[darkbreed]

I've used benzos for years and when it comes to the insomnia part they still do the trick. One 2mg alprazolam knocks me out, so does apparently 15mg midazolam if taken and immediately going to bed. I found out midazolam have from little to no effect on me if taken and staying awake, took up to 45 mg wihout any specific effects.

Flunitrazepam has also always been working great for insomnia, despise my high tolerance to benzos in general, 1 or 2mg still is enough to make me sleep well, even though I used to highly abuse those in earlier days (iv'in up to 20mg daily as well as other stuff like opiates)

Now I'm just getting benzos as prescribed legally, and i've used them for years wihout any personal problems related to benzos such as withdrawals or other severe mental problems when quitting now and then. I went around a year without once, after stopping cold turkey (stopping one day wihout stepping down doses) and it went fine.

I suspect my brain chemistry is somewhat different than most folks as I've always had a high tolerance for basically all drugs, and never had any special withdrawal problems even when using very high amounts of different drugs at same time for very long periods.

[JJx23]

Well I am sure that a lot of people wish that they had your tolerance. :)

Regards.

I've used benzos for years and when it comes to the insomnia part they still do the trick. One 2mg alprazolam knocks me out, so does apparently 15mg midazolam if taken and immediately going to bed. I found out midazolam have from little to no effect on me if taken and staying awake, took up to 45 mg wihout any specific effects.

Flunitrazepam has also always been working great for insomnia, despise my high tolerance to benzos in general, 1 or 2mg still is enough to make me sleep well, even though I used to highly abuse those in earlier days (iv'in up to 20mg daily as well as other stuff like opiates)

Now I'm just getting benzos as prescribed legally, and i've used them for years wihout any personal problems related to benzos such as withdrawals or other severe mental problems when quitting now and then. I went around a year without once, after stopping cold turkey (stopping one day wihout stepping down doses) and it went fine.

I suspect my brain chemistry is somewhat different than most folks as I've always had a high tolerance for basically all drugs, and never had any special withdrawal problems even when using very high amounts of different drugs at same time for very long periods.

[Psych0naut]

Well, that is true, but one can use Benzo's with other types of treatment also. Becoming tolerant to a Benzo can simply be waned down by the patient's doctor so that they won't have to feel the withdrawal symptoms. Most of the time, Benzo's are used for short term care anyway, and I believe many doctors already know about this. It's been proven that many medications have side-effects, and doctors do let their patient's know of these side-effects. The pain center that I go to prescribes opiates, benzos, and barbiturates, all of which were on the few sheets of paper that I signed before I started my treatment program. It tells the patient everything on there, as well as the doctor letting the patient(s) know too. Now maybe I just live in a great area where doctors know what they're doing, or what? The doctors simply look forward into the future, since they already know what they will be doing. I am in proper care, and I feel safe taking my medications, but you have stated that it's very different else-where in the world. This I can tell you, I did not know!

Regards.Why use it with other types of treatment if there are plenty of medicines that are not addictive, yet are just as effective? At it's not just a simple matter of weaning down to prevent tolerance. Long term but even medium duration use of benzo's cause invertion of GABA-benzodiazepine receptors, which takes several months, or even years to reset. You can't reset the long term tolerance caused by invertion by just tapering one's benzo use. And just tapering down one's use is often not as easy as it sounds. Because tolerance keeps rising, causing one to need more and more benzo's to keep withdrawl away. If one then suddenly tapers down one's usage, it will often cause withdrawl to precipitate, and although it won't cause full blown withdrawl, it's still certainly not pleasant. This is especially true when tapering the use of strong hypnotic benzo's.

Most of the time, benzo's are indeed used for short term treatment, but in many cases, it's used for long term treatment as well, which guaranteedly will mean the patient undergoing it will have to go through withdrawl some day. All the doctors around the globe know the consequences of medium to long term benzo treatment, yet still there are many which are a bit to keen on prescribing them. In Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Guatamala, you name it, in every country of the world it happens, even though the doctors know the consequences.

Ofcourse many medications have side-effects, but many of the alternatives for anxiety and insomnia treatment have less side-effects than benzo's, and they generally lack physical addictiveness too. Most doctors however don't tell their patients all the possible side-effects of their prescribed medication. Pretty logical if you think about how much different medicines they have to know, and how moch possible side-effects they each have. They just prescribe the medicine(s), and expect that the patient reads the patient information leaflet that comes with the medicine(s). If there is a common side-effect for the particular drug, they often mention it, but don't expect them to mention all the possible side-effects, cause that would be impossible for them to know. I doubt that's different for all the doctors in your region/country. I doubt what location it might be, as you say they stil prescribed nasty, old barbiturates. Don't forget that doctors in pain centers, or specialises sleeping doctors are not the same as the common gp, which is where nearly all people go with their common ailments. Those doctors are only specialised in a small field of medicine, and the corresponding medicines for those ailments. They often know a lot more about the specific drugs they prescribe, as they only have to know a few different medicines, while the regular gp has to know enough of all different fields of medicine, from sleeping disorders to psychiatry, from physiotherapy to sleeping disorders, and from infections to bone fractures. This is the same all throughout the globe, except in most third-world countries, like most of mid-Africa, and South-Asia. The only thing different is the prescription of drugs with a high abuse factor, like strong opioids and stimulants, as well as the barbiturates.

well honestly i would suggest you use temazepam for insomnia as its long half life means you wont grow tolerant to it as my shrink told me, clonazepam is another one but i find it to be active after you wake up and it takes a bit to kick in. i hope this will help because hypnotics generally have short half lives and you grow tolerant to them.Temazepam is one of the most addictive benzo's available for prescription, and it has one of the shortes half-lifes of all hypnotic benzo's, except for midazolam, brotizolam and triazolam. And the half-life is no indication for addictiveness, the ones with the shortest half lifes are generally by far the most addictive, but several long-acting benzo's can be almost just as addictive, so half-life is no good indication of addictiveness. Clonazepam is generally not suitable as a hypnotic because it lacks sedation, that's why it's such a good anticonvulsant, because most other strong anticolvulsant benzo's are strong hypnotics as well, but Clonazepam isn't. Nitrazepam, Temazepam, Flunitrazepam and Lormetazepam are generally considered the best hypnotic benzo's, though they are much more addictive than most others as well.

[JJx23]

Well, I am going to throw this out there Psych0naut, everybody is different, and medication(s) affect every person differently, so it's a bit hard to say how long the receptors will take to reset. Benzos for long term treatment is very common in the states. I know a lot of people who are on them long term. Many people will be on them the rest of their lives, and believe me, I am not falsifying this information at all. I was speaking to a doctor regarding this, and it is very possible to wane a person off of any medication, if it's done correctly. It has been proven however, that for every year a person is on Benzodiazepines, there is a 1 month withdrawal period. But the normal withdrawal for Benzos are 7-10 days I believe.

While the acute withdrawals will be over with, you can still feel minor symptoms every now and then for months after, but it's nothing to be worried about, because there are OTC medications that can take care of that, whether it is a simple headache, runny nose, back ache, watery eyes, etc. Once the major withdrawal is over, you won't even know when you are having a minor withdrawal after the acute withdrawal is over.

Like I said before, everyone is different, and I appreciate your insight, I learned a lot from your last post. I just wanted to add my own as well, because I heard this from an actual doctor.

Regards.

Why use it with other types of treatment if there are plenty of medicines that are not addictive, yet are just as effective? At it's not just a simple matter of weaning down to prevent tolerance. Long term but even medium duration use of benzo's cause invertion of GABA-benzodiazepine receptors, which takes several months, or even years to reset. You can't reset the long term tolerance caused by invertion by just tapering one's benzo use. And just tapering down one's use is often not as easy as it sounds. Because tolerance keeps rising, causing one to need more and more benzo's to keep withdrawl away. If one then suddenly tapers down one's usage, it will often cause withdrawl to precipitate, and although it won't cause full blown withdrawl, it's still certainly not pleasant. This is especially true when tapering the use of strong hypnotic benzo's.

Most of the time, benzo's are indeed used for short term treatment, but in many cases, it's used for long term treatment as well, which guaranteedly will mean the patient undergoing it will have to go through withdrawl some day. All the doctors around the globe know the consequences of medium to long term benzo treatment, yet still there are many which are a bit to keen on prescribing them. In Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Guatamala, you name it, in every country of the world it happens, even though the doctors know the consequences.

Ofcourse many medications have side-effects, but many of the alternatives for anxiety and insomnia treatment have less side-effects than benzo's, and they generally lack physical addictiveness too. Most doctors however don't tell their patients all the possible side-effects of their prescribed medication. Pretty logical if you think about how much different medicines they have to know, and how moch possible side-effects they each have. They just prescribe the medicine(s), and expect that the patient reads the patient information leaflet that comes with the medicine(s). If there is a common side-effect for the particular drug, they often mention it, but don't expect them to mention all the possible side-effects, cause that would be impossible for them to know. I doubt that's different for all the doctors in your region/country. I doubt what location it might be, as you say they stil prescribed nasty, old barbiturates. Don't forget that doctors in pain centers, or specialises sleeping doctors are not the same as the common gp, which is where nearly all people go with their common ailments. Those doctors are only specialised in a small field of medicine, and the corresponding medicines for those ailments. They often know a lot more about the specific drugs they prescribe, as they only have to know a few different medicines, while the regular gp has to know enough of all different fields of medicine, from sleeping disorders to psychiatry, from physiotherapy to sleeping disorders, and from infections to bone fractures. This is the same all throughout the globe, except in most third-world countries, like most of mid-Africa, and South-Asia. The only thing different is the prescription of drugs with a high abuse factor, like strong opioids and stimulants, as well as the barbiturates.

Temazepam is one of the most addictive benzo's available for prescription, and it has one of the shortes half-lifes of all hypnotic benzo's, except for midazolam, brotizolam and triazolam. And the half-life is no indication for addictiveness, the ones with the shortest half lifes are generally by far the most addictive, but several long-acting benzo's can be almost just as addictive, so half-life is no good indication of addictiveness. Clonazepam is generally not suitable as a hypnotic because it lacks sedation, that's why it's such a good anticonvulsant, because most other strong anticolvulsant benzo's are strong hypnotics as well, but Clonazepam isn't. Nitrazepam, Temazepam, Flunitrazepam and Lormetazepam are generally considered the best hypnotic benzo's, though they are much more addictive than most others as well.

[sarbanes]

snip....
Temazepam is one of the most addictive benzo's available for prescription, and it has one of the shortes half-lifes of all hypnotic benzo's...snip

Hey Psychonaut, I hear ya bout temazepam. Funny thing here though, is my Dr. Rx'd me temz (even though I requested alprazolam), and cited addiction liability as reason for the substitution. I get the feeling its the dosage form the temazepam is supplied in, which makes it potentially abusable (in a certain way), and therefore, highly addictive? Like 'jellies" in the UK. So I hear now that jellies are no longer around, they Rx tablets (but peeps really want capsules, which are a no no.) Perhaps you could shed some light on this, cuz my Dr. easily gave me temz, but no bars. Tnx. (http://kalcheminternational.com/catalog.php?CatID=1&action=browse) Also, maybe the caps are easier to prep. for slamming.

ps: why did my font insist on coming out underlined, purple and big??!? sry

[darkbreed]

SWIM knows temazepam capsules are a favorite among those who like to do the highway route (mainlining /IV'in) as it is quite convenient to just open the capsule and cook up the powder inside. SWIM personally find flunitrazepam the most potent and enjoyable benzo for this sort of administration though from the times he was doing those things.

SWIM recently tested IV'ing 15mg midazolam along with 1mg flunitrazepam and he reported it was a pretty pleasent combo. He just did that as an experiment though to see what it would be like as he had never IV'ed midazolam before and was curios on its effecs. He has no intentions on doing it again as it was just to have it crossed of the list, sort of.

SWIM also did an experiment to test his tolerance this weekend by having a little benzo binge he told me, and he ingested 90mg of Diazepam (9 x 10mg Valiums) along with 100mg Tramadol (2x 50mg Calmadors), 2mg of Alprazolam (1 x 2mg Xanax), 350 mg Carisoprodol (1 x 350mg Soma) and 4 beers. He reported the effects were mild, slightly sedated but far from highly influenced. Motor skills as normal, mind pretty clear and focused, stayed up and played a computer game for some hours hoping the effects would increase, but they didn't get stronger than slightly more relaxed and sedated than those 4 beers would have done on their own.

He went to bed and slept for 8 hours, woke up feeling no after effects or hangover.

With that said, he do not recommend anyone else to try such a combination as it is and can be quite dangerous but SWIM is quite aware of his somewhat unusual tolerance level and what he can handle but other people could have gotten into serious problems from doing such a combination or even a combination similar to it but less in strength / ingredients.

SWIM would like to add though that even though he has little recreational effects from high doses of above mentioned substances, the medical effects are still pretty fine in smaller normal prescribed dosages - For example 10mg Valium 3 times a day is still effective for what he got it prescribed for, and 1-2mg of Alprazolam is enough to get to sleep with if taken at bedtime, same for 15mg midazolam, and 2mg clonazepam is also effective for the medical reasons they've been prescribed for.

For some reason, it just seems that the effects do not increase very much even though prescribed amounts are highly exceeded and combined with even other substances that should make the effects even stronger. hm

[Psych0naut]

Well, I am going to throw this out there Psych0naut, everybody is different, and medication(s) affect every person differently, so it's a bit hard to say how long the receptors will take to reset. Benzos for long term treatment is very common in the states. I know a lot of people who are on them long term. Many people will be on them the rest of their lives, and believe me, I am not falsifying this information at all. I was speaking to a doctor regarding this, and it is very possible to wane a person off of any medication, if it's done correctly. It has been proven however, that for every year a person is on Benzodiazepines, there is a 1 month withdrawal period. But the normal withdrawal for Benzos are 7-10 days I believe.

While the acute withdrawals will be over with, you can still feel minor symptoms every now and then for months after, but it's nothing to be worried about, because there are OTC medications that can take care of that, whether it is a simple headache, runny nose, back ache, watery eyes, etc. Once the major withdrawal is over, you won't even know when you are having a minor withdrawal after the acute withdrawal is over.

Like I said before, everyone is different, and I appreciate your insight, I learned a lot from your last post. I just wanted to add my own as well, because I heard this from an actual doctor.

Regards.Everyone's body chemistry is different, but after invertion of the GABA-benzodiazepine receptors, it takes months before they are reset, and for most part, they never return to their original position, which causes permanent tolerance. I'm sorry for the poor people who are put on benzo's without even knowing the consequences it will have later in their life, when all of a sudden they move to a new area where there doctor is reluctant to prescribe benzo's again ... The doctor that told you it's possible to slowly wean off any medicine was either lying or should urgently quit his job and finish his study if medicine. With benzodiazepines, it's not possible to slowly wean off without experiencing withdrawls. With daily use, tolerance keeps rising, needing more and more of the drug to keep withdrawl at bay. If you lower the dose while you actually need more to prevent one's self from getting withdrawls, it's unavoidable to experience at least mild withdrawls, not mather how fast or slow one weanes off. Stopping benzo use completely after one has weaned one's self off to the lowest dose possibly is actually the hardest, because that's when the withdrawl will be at it's peak, because the body get's not benzo's anymore. Those withdrawls can takes many weeks or months, even years, if one has taken benzo's for long periods. I speak from experience, I've been on benzo's for half a year, and have quit recently. I slowly weaned myself off with Librium from 13 tablets a day to 1 a day in 4 months time. When I finally quit alltogether, the withdrawls started a few days after stopping, getting worse and worse, untill it was a nightmare. Tremors, fits, depersonalisation and derealisation, a semi-psychosis ... After 10 days I abruptly went back to using my Librium because I just couldn't take it anymore. Once again, I've quit alltogether 9 days ago, this time with succes thanks to the Ketamine detoxification SWIM took. The Ketamine helped SWIMs inverted GABA-benzodiazepine receptors to revert back into their original position, and SWIM experienced barely any withdrawls during it all. SWIM was very lucky though, he got two boxes of Ketamine vials from a friend, but Ketamine detox is not possible at the doctor or a hospital, SWIM did it on his own, but for the normal person, it would not be possible to do this, so they would just have to go through it without any chemical crutch.

It's not minor withdrawls you'll still be feeling months afterwards, they can still be pretty severe. During the first period it can be hell on earth, and while time slowly progresses, one will have "windows of normality", periods during which one feels normal again, and which will become longer periods over time, but it can take a long time before the transition to full normality has been made. I doubt you know much about benzo withdrawl, because no OTC medicines are usefull against benzo withdrawl. The insomnia and anxiety while follows, tremors and fits, psychosis, hallucinations, and so on. There is no major and minor withdrawl. Like I said, it goes from constant withdrawls to normality in windows of normality, and each window of normality is a bit longer than the previous one, untill full normality has returned. You seem to underestimate benzo withdrawl. It isn't without a reason the hardest class of drugs to quit. I think that doctor needs quite some correcting and re-educating.

snip.......snip

Hey Psychonaut, I hear ya bout temazepam. Funny thing here though, is my Dr. Rx'd me temz (even though I requested alprazolam), and cited addiction liability as reason for the substitution. I get the feeling its the dosage form the temazepam is supplied in, which makes it potentially abusable (in a certain way), and therefore, highly addictive? Like 'jellies" in the UK. So I hear now that jellies are no longer around, they Rx tablets (but peeps really want capsules, which are a no no.) Perhaps you could shed some light on this, cuz my Dr. easily gave me temz, but no bars. Tnx. (http://kalcheminternational.com/catalog.php?CatID=1&action=browse) Also, maybe the caps are easier to prep. for slamming.

ps: why did my font insist on coming out underlined, purple and big??!? sryI assume you're prescribed the temazepam for insomnia? If so, temazepam is much more effective for insomnia than alprazolam, the former is a hypnotic benzo, the latter an anxiolytic benzo. Nearly all hypnotic benzo's are more addictive than anxiolytic benzo's, so for the treatment of insomnia, if your doctor chooses to treat it with benzo's, there are no alternatives except to prescribe the more addictive hypnotic benzo's over the less addictive, but much less effective anxiolytic benzo's.

[JJx23]

Well again Psych0naut, I am going to say that everyone is different. Even though you have gotten off of Xanax and went through the withdrawals, you can SLOWLY taper off of the drug. As for saying that the doctor I asked needs to go back to school, he has a degree and is doing what he has always dreamt of doing. I am not downgrading you in any way, but there is a way you can taper off of Xanax as the doctor told me. I was researching information for an article I am going to be writing. There is a slow taper method that doctors do, and it works. You might feel some withdrawal (I'm sure you will), but it will be tolerable. I was told that Benzo withdrawal is worst than Opiate withdrawal, which is what I have also read on this forum.

I have also heard about receptors not being exactly the same as they were when they weren't even touched, but like life in itself, nothing is the same, although seeing that everyone is different, of course someone's receptors will repair themselves as the body has a mechanism for repairing itself obviously. I am enjoying this discussion a lot, keep the replies coming Psych0.

Regards.

Everyone's body chemistry is different, but after invertion of the GABA-benzodiazepine receptors, it takes months before they are reset, and for most part, they never return to their original position, which causes permanent tolerance. I'm sorry for the poor people who are put on benzo's without even knowing the consequences it will have later in their life, when all of a sudden they move to a new area where there doctor is reluctant to prescribe benzo's again ... The doctor that told you it's possible to slowly wean off any medicine was either lying or should urgently quit his job and finish his study if medicine. With benzodiazepines, it's not possible to slowly wean off without experiencing withdrawls. With daily use, tolerance keeps rising, needing more and more of the drug to keep withdrawl at bay. If you lower the dose while you actually need more to prevent one's self from getting withdrawls, it's unavoidable to experience at least mild withdrawls, not mather how fast or slow one weanes off. Stopping benzo use completely after one has weaned one's self off to the lowest dose possibly is actually the hardest, because that's when the withdrawl will be at it's peak, because the body get's not benzo's anymore. Those withdrawls can takes many weeks or months, even years, if one has taken benzo's for long periods. I speak from experience, I've been on benzo's for half a year, and have quit recently. I slowly weaned myself off with Librium from 13 tablets a day to 1 a day in 4 months time. When I finally quit alltogether, the withdrawls started a few days after stopping, getting worse and worse, untill it was a nightmare. Tremors, fits, depersonalisation and derealisation, a semi-psychosis ... After 10 days I abruptly went back to using my Librium because I just couldn't take it anymore. Once again, I've quit alltogether 9 days ago, this time with succes thanks to the Ketamine detoxification SWIM took. The Ketamine helped SWIMs inverted GABA-benzodiazepine receptors to revert back into their original position, and SWIM experienced barely any withdrawls during it all. SWIM was very lucky though, he got two boxes of Ketamine vials from a friend, but Ketamine detox is not possible at the doctor or a hospital, SWIM did it on his own, but for the normal person, it would not be possible to do this, so they would just have to go through it without any chemical crutch.

It's not minor withdrawls you'll still be feeling months afterwards, they can still be pretty severe. During the first period it can be hell on earth, and while time slowly progresses, one will have "windows of normality", periods during which one feels normal again, and which will become longer periods over time, but it can take a long time before the transition to full normality has been made. I doubt you know much about benzo withdrawl, because no OTC medicines are usefull against benzo withdrawl. The insomnia and anxiety while follows, tremors and fits, psychosis, hallucinations, and so on. There is no major and minor withdrawl. Like I said, it goes from constant withdrawls to normality in windows of normality, and each window of normality is a bit longer than the previous one, untill full normality has returned. You seem to underestimate benzo withdrawl. It isn't without a reason the hardest class of drugs to quit. I think that doctor needs quite some correcting and re-educating.

I assume you're prescribed the temazepam for insomnia? If so, temazepam is much more effective for insomnia than alprazolam, the former is a hypnotic benzo, the latter an anxiolytic benzo. Nearly all hypnotic benzo's are more addictive than anxiolytic benzo's, so for the treatment of insomnia, if your doctor chooses to treat it with benzo's, there are no alternatives except to prescribe the more addictive hypnotic benzo's over the less addictive, but much less effective anxiolytic benzo's.

[moda00]

Not getting into too much detail, but swim would second the suggestion of triazolam. She found it an interesting and unique benzo, has not used it recreationally or for sleep, but actually for "sedation dentistry," basically where one is awake but sedated, as opposed to general anesthesia but more powerful that nothing or just nitrous.. it is fast acting and powerful, and she found the sedative-hypnotic properties quite strong. Strong potential for amnesia, but if one is used to benzos and uses them for sleep, this should not be an issue. Be safe and enjoy!

[Psych0naut]

Well again Psych0naut, I am going to say that everyone is different. Even though you have gotten off of Xanax and went through the withdrawals, you can SLOWLY taper off of the drug. As for saying that the doctor I asked needs to go back to school, he has a degree and is doing what he has always dreamt of doing. I am not downgrading you in any way, but there is a way you can taper off of Xanax as the doctor told me. I was researching information for an article I am going to be writing. There is a slow taper method that doctors do, and it works. You might feel some withdrawal (I'm sure you will), but it will be tolerable. I was told that Benzo withdrawal is worst than Opiate withdrawal, which is what I have also read on this forum.

I have also heard about receptors not being exactly the same as they were when they weren't even touched, but like life in itself, nothing is the same, although seeing that everyone is different, of course someone's receptors will repair themselves as the body has a mechanism for repairing itself obviously. I am enjoying this discussion a lot, keep the replies coming Psych0.

Regards.I've never actually been on Xanax(alprazolam), I was prescribed Normison(temazepam) and later Rohypnol(flunitrazepam) and Dormicum(midazolam) for some time, and was than switched to the long acting Librium(chlordiazepoxide) by my doctor, to make it easier to slowly taper down my usage. I was also prescribed Mirtazapine and Risperidone when I was switched to Librium(chlordiazepoxide), to combat the insomnia caused by tapering the Librium, as it caused rebound insomnia. Tapering off of benzodiazepines with very long acting benzodiazepines like Valium(diazepam) and Librium(chlordiazepoxide) is the standard way to do it, because withrawls are the mildest when taping with long acting benzo's. The downside however is that the withrawls also takes much and much longer before they are finally over, it's just like methadon for opioid dependance. Tapering off of Xanax(alprazolam) and other intermediate and short acting benzo's by tapering the use of those benzo's themselves, without suffering normal to severe withdrawls if you've been taking them for some time(a few months or longer). For that reason, you will always get switched over to long acting benzo's. A tapering schedule with either diazepam or chlordiazepoxide is the slow tapering method you're referring to.

I've been through it, and I can say from my own personal experience, that is wasn't exactly pleasant. And I took 4 months to slowly taper from 65 mg to 0 mg chlordiazepoxide, which is pretty damn slow, just as it should. The only thing that kept it a bit under control was the fact that I got 2 other sedatives/sleep aids as well, alongside the chlordiazepoxide. I didn't experience any seizures or hallucinations during that period(the worst of the withdrawl was when I had finally stopped taking it all together, going from 5 mg to 0 mg), but I did have quite a depression for 4 months long, as well as lethargy and being suicidal at times. I still felt like an empty shell during that period. Now that SWIM has finally quit for some time, he's starting to feel alive and like a human person again. The first time he went from 5 mg to 0 mg was a bitch, and nasty withdraws popped up a few days after quitting, lasting for 10 days untill SWIM went back on the chlordiazepoxide because he couldn't take it anymore. After 3 days of being on the benzo's again, he kicked the benzo's (and his anti-psychotic, Risperidone) for good thanks to ketamine. He did a ketamine detoxification, taking high doses for 5 days long, once a day. He went through those 5 times with barely any withdrawls, and during the days after, he barely had any withdrawls either, except for insomnia. It's been 10 days since he stopped taking his Librium, and even much longer if you neglect the 3 days between his first and second(final) time of kicking the benzo's, during which he only took very low doses.

Damaged receptors due to long term use of benzo's can be very serious. Benzodiazepines effect many important receptor sites in the human body, of which many cause pronounced effects. The invert agonism cause by long term use can lead to life long sleeping problems, cognitive deficits, muscle pain, weakness, decreased apetite, anhedonia, anxiety, tremors and major depressive disorder with psychotic features. That's not something you're born with, that's something you're stuck with due to benzo use. And unfortunenately you're wrong, the body does not obviously always repair itself, those receptors often stay unchanged. Permanent brainchanges due to drug use aren't uncommon, this is also known to happen with long term use of cocaine and methamphetamine, which can cause permanent breakdown of the pleasure pathways, causing apathy and a permanent lack of being able to experience pleasure. There has recently been an important breakthrough thoug, the use of the benzodiazepine agonist Flumazenil against protracted withdrawl syndrome(permanently inverted GABA-benzodiazepine receptors), unfortunenately only a few experiments have been done with it, and much research still has to be done before it will become available as a treatment.

[darkbreed]

SWIM thinks his GABA is buggered up indeed from long term high dosages of benzos. This means he now has gorilla high tolerance which doesnt seem to reset. Though, benzos are still of his favorites when done right and in high enough dosage.

[JJx23]

Well aren't you lucky to have used the Ketamine Treatment. May I ask how many mgs you were taking (The Benzos). I know that taking large doses of Xanax can really hurt your brain, but if you are taking a low dose it cannot. As for the body repairing itself, you are wrong. The body has a repairing mechanism, how do you think our wounds heal? We eventually feel better after we have been sick? If you are abusing a drug, you deserve to have brain-damang, but what about the people who are simply taking the required dosage. Believe it or not, there are some people who just stay on the same dosage they have been on for years, even though you normally need to up your dosage to feel the effects again...

Regards.

I've never actually been on Xanax(alprazolam), I was prescribed Normison(temazepam) and later Rohypnol(flunitrazepam) and Dormicum(midazolam) for some time, and was than switched to the long acting Librium(chlordiazepoxide) by my doctor, to make it easier to slowly taper down my usage. I was also prescribed Mirtazapine and Risperidone when I was switched to Librium(chlordiazepoxide), to combat the insomnia caused by tapering the Librium, as it caused rebound insomnia. Tapering off of benzodiazepines with very long acting benzodiazepines like Valium(diazepam) and Librium(chlordiazepoxide) is the standard way to do it, because withrawls are the mildest when taping with long acting benzo's. The downside however is that the withrawls also takes much and much longer before they are finally over, it's just like methadon for opioid dependance. Tapering off of Xanax(alprazolam) and other intermediate and short acting benzo's by tapering the use of those benzo's themselves, without suffering normal to severe withdrawls if you've been taking them for some time(a few months or longer). For that reason, you will always get switched over to long acting benzo's. A tapering schedule with either diazepam or chlordiazepoxide is the slow tapering method you're referring to.

I've been through it, and I can say from my own personal experience, that is wasn't exactly pleasant. And I took 4 months to slowly taper from 65 mg to 0 mg chlordiazepoxide, which is pretty damn slow, just as it should. The only thing that kept it a bit under control was the fact that I got 2 other sedatives/sleep aids as well, alongside the chlordiazepoxide. I didn't experience any seizures or hallucinations during that period(the worst of the withdrawl was when I had finally stopped taking it all together, going from 5 mg to 0 mg), but I did have quite a depression for 4 months long, as well as lethargy and being suicidal at times. I still felt like an empty shell during that period. Now that SWIM has finally quit for some time, he's starting to feel alive and like a human person again. The first time he went from 5 mg to 0 mg was a bitch, and nasty withdraws popped up a few days after quitting, lasting for 10 days untill SWIM went back on the chlordiazepoxide because he couldn't take it anymore. After 3 days of being on the benzo's again, he kicked the benzo's (and his anti-psychotic, Risperidone) for good thanks to ketamine. He did a ketamine detoxification, taking high doses for 5 days long, once a day. He went through those 5 times with barely any withdrawls, and during the days after, he barely had any withdrawls either, except for insomnia. It's been 10 days since he stopped taking his Librium, and even much longer if you neglect the 3 days between his first and second(final) time of kicking the benzo's, during which he only took very low doses.

Damaged receptors due to long term use of benzo's can be very serious. Benzodiazepines effect many important receptor sites in the human body, of which many cause pronounced effects. The invert agonism cause by long term use can lead to life long sleeping problems, cognitive deficits, muscle pain, weakness, decreased apetite, anhedonia, anxiety, tremors and major depressive disorder with psychotic features. That's not something you're born with, that's something you're stuck with due to benzo use. And unfortunenately you're wrong, the body does not obviously always repair itself, those receptors often stay unchanged. Permanent brainchanges due to drug use aren't uncommon, this is also known to happen with long term use of cocaine and methamphetamine, which can cause permanent breakdown of the pleasure pathways, causing apathy and a permanent lack of being able to experience pleasure. There has recently been an important breakthrough thoug, the use of the benzodiazepine agonist Flumazenil against protracted withdrawl syndrome(permanently inverted GABA-benzodiazepine receptors), unfortunenately only a few experiments have been done with it, and much research still has to be done before it will become available as a treatment.

[welshmick]

Don't go there - SWIM had some soap bar, and wine , and valium

Feel good :vibes:


Shit tomorrow

[davestate]

OK, never mind how, but AFOAF has the choice of obtaining Nitrazepam 40 of 5mg. Temazepam 40 of 30mg tabs. Valium 10mg, and a hell of a lot. Lorazepam 2mg. Clonazepam 2mg. Alprazolam 2mg or Bromazapam 3mg.

Personally I'm leaning towards the Nitrazepam . I wanted valium but the quantities of Valium are very large, and if caught I SWIM could be done for dealing, even though that isn't SWIMS intention.

So opinions anyone? Thanks in advance

[Jatelka]

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[Psych0naut]

Well aren't you lucky to have used the Ketamine Treatment. May I ask how many mgs you were taking (The Benzos). I know that taking large doses of Xanax can really hurt your brain, but if you are taking a low dose it cannot. As for the body repairing itself, you are wrong. The body has a repairing mechanism, how do you think our wounds heal? We eventually feel better after we have been sick? If you are abusing a drug, you deserve to have brain-damang, but what about the people who are simply taking the required dosage. Believe it or not, there are some people who just stay on the same dosage they have been on for years, even though you normally need to up your dosage to feel the effects again...

Regards.No I'm still not lucky. I might be free of withdrawls like I used to have, but I still suffer from daily severe insomnia. Yet again, I said I've never taken Xanax(alprazolam) on prescription. I've had Rohypnol(flunitrazepam) and Dormicum(midazolam) for my insomnia. I too several mg of Rohypnol, as well as 15mg Dormicum. Dormicum is well known for being the hardest benzo to kick, and the most severe one, due to it's extremele short half-life of only a few hours. Rohypnol is generally known to be one of the most addictive benzodiazepines as well.

And no, you are wrong. I have a good deal of knowledge of neuropharmocology, and I know what I talk about. It is well known among medical literature that long-term benzodiazepine usage leads to invertion of the GABA-benzodiazepine receptors. Because they are inverted, they constantly lack GABA input, causing caunstant withdrawl effects. Our wounds may heal, but our nerves don't, nor do most organ cells. Same goes for receptor sites. I didn't abuse my medication, I rather wanted to be free from any medicine, but my dosing regiment was neccesary because I couldn't literally sleep for days on end, which was even worse. Still, my medical regiment caused me a pretty darn nasty addiction. Nice for those people that they've stayed on the same dose for years, but it is well documented that benzodiazepines loose their effect after several weeks of constant use. The longest ever recorded period of effective use off benzo's was 12 weeks. So there's no use to taking it for years.

[darkbreed]

SWIM is currently experimenting with some new benzos. As mentioned above, Midazolam is one of these. Now after some more experimentation, he has to report that it is actually a quite nice benzo, his favorite route of administration is by simply smoking the crushed up pill in a rolled up cigarette as it gives a very instant and strong high. Only problem with this route is that the effect seem to be gone as soon the cigarette is done, more or less. But it gives a very different effect than taking it any other way, either that is swallowing it, putting it under the tounge, IV'ing it or putting i up the butt. He think he snorted some of it one day but he can't remember how that was like, so maybe that's a sign it was effective. Unfortunately he can't remember if he combined it with anything else either.

With that said, more experimentation needs to be done with midazolam before giving a real verdict. Last couple days he has been experimenting with the rectal route, crushing the pills up in powder, putting it in a mix of water and alcohol, and injecting it in with a syringe (with no needle obviously, just put the pump itself up the bottom and push away). This has so far proven to be a rather interesting and effective route of administration.

He is also currently about to experiment with ketazolam and Chlordiazepoxide which he just got today, and he'll try get some other benzos to soon. His goal is to get through all the benzos available in this country, it got some nice ones that is not available in his home-country, but then again his home-country got some nice ones as well that are not available here.