Who has taken Heroin and isn’t addicted?

[peacemaker]

I would like to know wow many of you have tried heroin and haven't gotten addicted to it? Raise your hands

[Zandorf]

I've down it twice, last time was like 7 monthes ago.<!--
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[peacemaker]

You feel controlled by it? Do you think about it, dream about it, have problems with this temptation?

[Nicaine]

Fwiw, heroin is not physically addictive when used once, there are no withdrawal symptoms. As far as "mental addiction," that depends totally on the person. It's hard to believe that trying it once would actually cause addiction, but many people would probably like it enough to use it again. I'm sure some wouldn't, tho.

[BrugmansiaBrujo]

I have never injected H. I have used it orally, snorted, and smoked.



Each time was just a chance encounter with the drug, I never went out to try to score it.



I'll have to say that I enjoyed it each time, and that when I came down
I kind of wished I had more, but that feeling passed in short order.



It has now been years since I've had any of those chance encounters.



I'd have to say, that the potential for it to be addictive is certainly
there, as it is with all opiates. I think the key to using it and
not getting addicted is to never, ever re-dose in the same day, or even
the next day, or maybe not even within a week of the first dose.



Occasional use seems harmless. But then again, I've never injected, so maybe that is a different story?

[Cure20]

SWIM has used it once and the very next day I wanted it so bad, but the thought of it was scary to me so SWIM hasn't touch it since. That was about a 3yrs ago.


BTW: It was the best high I have ever had, I especially liked it when I passed out for a bit, I had the most awsome dreams.

[Beltane]

FWIW, a dealer that SWIM knows was talking about H. Now this
dealer is certainly addicted to meth and I know he likes to eat norcos
and stuff, but he said he didn't really like H. I know he's tried
it a few times and it wasn't the thing for him. I found that
interested as I'd been lead to believe that EVERYONE likes H if they do
it.



Then again, I slammed C and didn't care much for that. Tho I'm sure I'll try it again to be sure.



- B

[Starfish]

I have tried H maybe up to 10 times but didnt get addicted. It was not
my drug of choice and I only took it because my bf offered me. I have
never ever missed taking H. It was only a short period

[peacemaker]

I see nobody got addicted.. hmm.. strange. So H is just demonized. But maybe therewere hundreds who read this threadbut didn't want to admit they were too weakto stop usingsmack. I think I will never know the real potential until I try.

[PenguinPhreak]

I think method of injestion influences the addiction potential to a
decent extent. I've heard a lot of junkies say smoking/snorting/eating
don't even hold a candle to injecting. Injecting it is suposed to be an
incredible rush.

[peacemaker]

maybe.. but my cousin snorted once. Told me ithad beenthe best feeling he'd ever had and he wouldn't forget it ever. Next day he bought more. He was running like mad from dealer to his house but fortunetly threw the shit into a pond in the garden and told himself no more.


I think snorting is as strongfor first timer as injecting for a veteran. Everybody starts from snorting.

[awakening]

SWIMS done it twice, smoked once and snorted once. Both times SWIM craved it intensely after the comedown. but SWIM lived in a place where it was pretty much non existent and very hard to find. SWIM thinks that is the only reason he didn't get hooked. a good book to check out about heroin is JUNKY by william s. burroughs. it was written back in like the 50's. SWIM found it extremely interesting.

[Crackkim]

smoked a couple of times its good but i don't miss it

[BrandonAA]

i've booted it, smoked it, railed it, somtitmes for afew days at a time but would alwaus take a couple days off in between after the doses. i never ever got dope sick once, i was jonesing but thats about it. be careful though because if you're not careful your fucked, and i was definantly borderline.

[bonghed]

Noone i know well most people swim know are off and use (as does swim, very occasionally, well give in at hard times), i know a fair few that used to .Edited by: bonghed

[bonghed]

maybe.. but my cousin snorted once. Told me ithad beenthe best feeling he'd ever had and he wouldn't forget it ever. Next day he bought more. He was running like mad from dealer to his house but fortunetly threw the shit into a pond in the garden and told himself no more.


I think snorting is as strongfor first timer as injecting for a veteran. Everybody starts from snorting.





also smoking it is nothing like snorting, well snorting&lt;smoking&lt;injecting


swim'll try anything now, he used to say he'd never try crack but he did, now he can enjoy that without being addicted


allswims mates lost 9 years (roughly, well a few still on it)to heroin addiction though, (which does act as a detterent, but for how long?


Smack really isn't for everyone but it seems even people without a addictive personality have trouble with it, if you're in with a group of people, it's too easy to become part of the scene.


Also you have to travel a little while to get it here, as the only people who sell it for a while unhindered are obviously on the payrollEdited by: bonghed

[Bongermann]

I've used it, I've enjoyed it each and every time. I've even had times
where I used it and used it and used it. But, I can proudly say, I'm
not an addict. I sometimes remember it like an old friend whom has been
lost through years, an old, great, friend. I allow myself, and my
girlfriend allows me, use of it once every 6 months. Snorting is my
thing though, when I do use it, I send it up my nose. :-)



P.S. Christmas is the next time I can use it. I will be giving myself a nice opioid blanket for the holidays'. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif


Edited by: Bongermann

[silkygoo]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gifswim was doing white heroin and dilaudad. she used to have to get up at five in the morning and do a shot so she could go back to sleep. she got hepititus and was too high to recognize death. In the womans owners manual it says that about a tenth of a gram of heroin everyday for about two weeks will definately produce a physical dependence . swim was getting icky after a week. the first time she got high, the rest of the time she got well. jonsing is hard enough for the head , it's some serious hell when your body tells you ,you got to get it. takes the recreation right out of it! reck-creation is more like it aye.

[cuddleco]

I am most definately addicted to it, but on the flip side I do not hate that as much as I probably should. I like to do it all the time and I do, I do not fore see me quiting anytime soon but when I do it will certainly suck a whole fucking lot. But for not it makes my life liveable and being alive and addicted is better than being dead and not.

A word of advice, yes it is very addictive and very dangerous so be careful with opiates.

love
junkie

[Chaote]

Only aboput 20% of heroin users are addicts it is grossly blown out of proportions through the media and public stigmas

[Nagognog2]

My lab ape, Bongo, tried heroin twice. That was years ago. It was too enjoyable. He never went near it again.

[BigJon]

i never knew that heroin could be snorted. the main reason that i never tried it was because i don't want to fuck with any needles. do you have to cut with anything? how big should the lines be?

[anabolictrio]

i suppose swim is "accetably" addicted to H and opium...
Swim has used it once or twice a week for three years.
ONLY SMOKED IT.

Sometimes he takes a rest, and he is always an health fanatic:
he follows a good organic diet,he goes to the gym,he takes some detoxicant supplements.
During the week he is not in great need for H. and he has a normal life.
The weekend he really enjoy to smoke a foil or two with his wife or friends....
If one weekend he can't (or don't want) to smoke a foil, he takes some xanax and have a rest.
moreover he gradually avoided all other kind of drugs!
He tried everything: H. or opium are less hazardous then mdma,cocaine,or alchool....

[enquirewithin]

Many people I have known have taken heroin (and other opoids) many times using a variety routes of administration and have not got addicted. Others have been addicted and stopped without dramatic problems. Weak personalities are the most in danger of long-term addiction. It's best when you are in pain or withdrawing, but its very over rated. It's a rather dull drug overall.

[bonghed]

I'm not addicted. edit

[MrCheese]

SWIM tried Heroin (smoked) 3 times about 12 years ago. The feeling was quite pleasant but fortunately he was one of the lucky ones who took the experiences on board, enjoyed them and moved on. he's never been back down that road again, IHO psychedelics are far more rewarding (and much less addictive and life destroying) if used correctly.

[joachimist]

i've spent 4days on heroine 2 years ago in a 1week festival in belgium
i've snort and smoke it.
i was also smoking base cocaine, eating lots of xtc, and few blotters at the beggining. but at the end i was only taking heroine, all the day and nights long.
It was my first and only time, but as everyone i knew was saying it was a fucking great heroine maybe pure (colour was very pale brown). (belgium has great products).

i took some with me when i go back home and slowly reduced my consumption. 3 days after i took the last tiny dose, and i've never take some again since.

i really enjoyed this stuff but it is very expensive compared to other drugs (i was with dealers at this festival so money wasn't a problem).
i've smoke opium 50 times or more and i prefer it.

Anyway i would prefer to stay away from somebody who can always have cheap good heroine, although i would first buy him some before i destroy his tel number.

Opium is also addictive but i've always managed to control my consumption.
i must say also that i'm not the kind of person who gets addict easily, even tobacco i managed to quit without problems.

[jane smith]

snorted. did it for a whole summer. stopped at the end of aug. (few years ago) and havent touched it since. No cravings at all- i guess i would desribe it as being kind of apathetic toward it- i dont regret doing it, but now that i had my little experience, im just done- over it.

[CrookedEye]

Swim was a heroin addict for 3+ years, then 3+ years on methadone.. He tried detoxing seven times before resorting to methadone.. He then tapered his methadone dose and took of to Amsterdam to try Iboga.. He has been opiate free for 2 years, now.. It is not going to get you addicted with a few tries, however, and this is true for nearly every drug, there are those who will like it enough that they want to use it more frequently, which ultimately can lead to an addiction... Opiate withdrawal feels like hell on earth, but it's not particularly deadly at all, unless you have underlying medical conditions that would be aggravated by the change in blood pressure and the shock of opiate withdrawal.. Pleny of people try heroin once or twice, don't really enjoy the effects, then never use it agan.. Others try it and think it's nice, but don't really care to use it too often.. Then you have people, like Swim was, and many others, who try it, like it, then try to work out some sort of plan to only use so often, which inevitably leads to addiction, many times, as the desire to get high outweighs the fear of getting addicted.. In this case, it begins the long difficult road to addiction, that many never return from... Good luck with whatever you decide! BTW, the route of administration can be a form of addiction in and of itself, but other than the efficiency of delivery, these drugs still perform the same chemical reaction in the brain, so IMO, it's wrong to demonize any form of administration.. With proper technique, IVing isn't nearly as bad as some would make it out to be.. Problems come from reusing needles, using the same injection site repeatedly without letting it heal, etc...

[circsee1]

CrookedEye, what dose of methadone did you taper down to before quitting? SWIM is currently taking methadone and has heard horror stories about stopping....Are these true? SWIM knows that different people with have different experiences but SWIM was in the hole for about three years as well and is on the second year of methadone use. Thanks.

[CrookedEye]

Swim was on stepped up to 100mgs a day for nearly 2 years(total habit was 7 years, but only 3+ were methadone) and began stepping down at 5mgs a day every two weeks, until he got to around 40... He stabilized at that dose and began going down 2mgs every 2 weeks, until he was down to around 14mgs a day.. He was not sleeping well at all, and wasn't feeling great, but wasn't unbearable sickness.. That is when he went to take Iboga.. Swim found out that switching to a shorter acting opiate for a week or so before taking the iboga can help ease the post acute withdrawal, and that weening way down can just create a less intense but much longer misery, then just going straight to iboga... Yes, methadone detox if taken very slow can minimize the withdrawal, but after you quit, you are going to have withdrawal for way longer than kicking heroin.. the withdrawal lasts for 2-12 months avg... Iboga will nearly eliminate this, and you may have minor post acute withdrawal for a few weeks to months, whch is bearable.. A second Iboga dose, will usually totally eliminate the PAW too, but it isn't cheap and legal in the US, Belgium, Sweden, and possibly Switzerland?

[deji]

Swim cannot read.

[raven3davis]

SWIM has his hand raised. He has only done heroin like three times snorting and smoking it but he said he would do it again given the right circumstances. IV is definitely "the way to go," if you take into acount the amount you need and the high you will get but it is also "the way to get addicted." SWIM is not saying if you IV you will get addicted but he has heard many people say "once you use the needle you will never go back."

SWIM wants to shoot up some dope but has never had the chance. Heroin is an addictive drug but if you use it in moderation the chances of getting addicted will plumit. It all just depends on who you are and how much of a drug you can handle without getting hooked. Everyone is different and some people are just more prone to addiction. If you are easily addicted to other drugs then heroin might not be for you. Whatever you do, be safe, especially if you use needles. It seems like most people who get addicted to heroin dont care much about themselves anyways and have many factors in their life that contribute to their addiction.

[morrison]

Swim tried some black tar heroin once, but swim smoked it w/some weed as opposed to snorting or injecting. Swim was high as fuck as long as sitting or layiing down, but once swim had to get up the nasea rushed in.

The worst part was the next day swim packed a bowl of herb and went off to work not thinking about the heroin in the bowl as he had just topped off the bowl, so about an hour into work again the nasea came to visit.

[dr.gonzo]

Swim has been a fairly regular H user for about eight months, with no physical addiction...

Update: Hmmm... well about 4 months later, Swim is not so sure he can still say that he has avoided addiction.

[dr ACE]

SWIM'S treid it once,and he thought it was shit to be blunt, very boring no cosmic insights of any sort just the same as crack a waste of god dam time& money&health!!.found it to be poteinaly very addictive if you have that gene or personality trait:- ie moral weekness.i think its very obvious who the 'jukies' are going to be but no one ever really does anything cause no 1 really gives a shit,shit they give them methadone for replacement of H and that shits just as addicitve if not more!, where is the sense in that!!

[wildwind]

I was a weekend user many years ago, but never got addicted, I was sooo
sick each time,I thought then it's not worth it.

[shwinehund]

Im sure if you allowed yourself to become completely sobre before you do it again, youll be alright. So once every 2 days is acceptable i guess. BTW ive shot dilaudid, which is pretty close.

[HippieD9]

SWIM's tried it a few time, found it lacking. I dunno, it just wasn't swim's thing I guess.

[CrookedEye]

Im sure if you allowed yourself to become completely sobre before you do it again, youll be alright. So once every 2 days is acceptable i guess. BTW ive shot dilaudid, which is pretty close.Heroin takes 3-5 days to leave your system, and possibly longer for regular users.. Using any sooner than this with any frequency or regularity will develop a tolerance and can lead to addiction, at least physically.. You could possibly become addicted mentally from one try, especially if it is something you really enjoy the first time...

[Forthesevenlakes]

SWIM tried it via smoking once, and never has used it again. however swim did not enjoy it, it had the "dreamy" nodding aspect of morphine, but was somehow darker, kind of like a bad trip in opiate form. definitely not reccomended. swim probably got off lucky, since everyone he knows that has enjoyed their first experience has brought a lot of trouble upon themselves.

[Manofwar]

From reading the answers here I think it really depends on the personality type and body chemistry of a person to really judge whether he will be addicted. I definitely want to try it once just to see what it's all about.

[freedom]

swim has done it every day for 7 days iv and stopped for a week after that, with little trouble stopping. He felt really fatigued for a day or 2 and the urge was there to do more, but with a slight bit of will power he says it wasnt a problem. swim has done it a few times a week but no set habit and hasnt had any trouble. swim thinks a big factor is if you want more or not. definately need self control. swim now hasnt done it in around 2-3 weeks and feels no need to do more, although it would be enjoyable :)

[orchid73]

SWIM smoked cocaine (crack) and would use H to come down for 2 years. First time SWIM got very, very sick (threw up all over). After that it was used as a downer. Never addicted to that but the crack AGH. Stopped for 3 years. now SWIM sniffs once or twice a week.

[adzket]

swim know many people that use at random times and dont get addicted to useing it offen dont get any withdrawel because they only use small bits at undertermind times when they feel like chilling out.

[Fantasian]

How many People are ignoring rules on self-incrimination here!!!!

TO show but a few:

i've booted it, smoked it, railed it, somtitmes for afew days at a time but would alwaus take a couple days off in between after the doses. i never ever got dope sick once, i was jonesing but thats about it. be careful though because if you're not careful your fucked, and i was definantly borderline.
I've used it, I've enjoyed it each and every time. I've even had times
where I used it and used it and used it. But, I can proudly say, I'm
not an addict. I sometimes remember it like an old friend whom has been
lost through years, an old, great, friend. I allow myself, and my
girlfriend allows me, use of it once every 6 months. Snorting is my
thing though, when I do use it, I send it up my nose. :-)
I am most definately addicted to it, but on the flip side I do not hate that as much as I probably should. I like to do it all the time and I do, I do not fore see me quiting anytime soon but when I do it will certainly suck a whole fucking lot. But for not it makes my life liveable and being alive and addicted is better than being dead and not. A word of advice, yes it is very addictive and very dangerous so be careful with opiates.


Please read up on self incrimination and the use of SWIM.

SWIFantasian has never used heroin but was addicted to morphine very quickly and that was at theraputic dosages.

[788.4]

To asnwer the initial question: a lot of people.


Many heroin users are not addicted.

Take a look at "Evidence for controlled heroin use? Low levels of negative health and social outcomes among non-treatment heroin users in Glasgow", published in the British Journal of Health Psychology.

http://www.gcal.ac.uk/news/downloads/heroin_use.pdf

There are a multitude of studies on this subject, but that was the only peer reviewed one I could find online.

Here is another source making similar claims in the summary provided below:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Occasional and controlled heroin use: Not a problem?

Hamish Warburton, Paul J Turnbull and Mike Hough

An exploration of heroin use among non-dependent and controlled dependent heroin users who saw their use as relatively problem-free.

Little is currently known about groups of occasional and controlled heroin users. This study aims to improve our understanding about patterns of heroin use, the nature of dependence and ways of controlling it.
The study describes how this largely hidden population maintained stable and controlled patterns of heroin use. Drawing on an internet survey of heroin users, followed by in-depth qualitative interviews, it examines their reasons for starting to use heroin, previous and current patterns of use, what helped to control use, and why they saw their use as fairly problem-free.
Heroin is a dangerous drug. It can have a devastating impact on individual lives, on users’ families and on the wider community. However, as the report shows, some people, in some circumstances, can effectively manage and regulate their use. This raises important issues for treatment. Can dependent and chaotic heroin users learn from the experience of this group? Should controlled heroin use be regarded as an acceptable short- or middle-term goal for clients of drug treatment services? Should popular beliefs about the inherent uncontrollability of heroin dependence be left unchallenged?
The report deconstructs some of the myths surrounding heroin use and heroin dependence. It is relevant to policy-makers, those working in the drug treatment field, academics and drug researchers.

From: http://www.jrf.org.uk/bookshop/details.asp?pubID=747

*The above text is only a summary of the publication. I am not sure if it is an actualy study, or simply an essay that gets it data from studies. The text is not available online. Either way the questions raised in the summary are interesting to consider.

[Alicia]

Swia loves the way it makes her feel, has been addicted but then swia uses other things as well. Swia has just uses every-now and again when ever she wants to feel warm. luckily never had to deal with street heroin .

[Ididnotinhale]

Heroin does not seem to be as addictive as it may seem.

Here are a few stats:

"Among heroin addicts, about 38 percent rank the urge to smoke as equal to or stronger than the urge to take heroin."(http://www.marijuanalibrary.org/NYT_addictive_080294.html)

According to Erowid and the National Survey on Drug Use and Health list of drugs "most likely to lead to regular use" Heroin is 9th!

Cigarettes, alcohol, weed, benzos, crack, stimulants/meth and coke all are above heroin.

Opiate pills tied with weed for third.

Swim thinks that part of the reason why opiate pills are ahead of heroin is because they are easier to find depending where you live. It seems that the easier the drug is to find the more likely they are to cause habituation.

Swim believes that many people are able to use heroin once because they are not aware of a source after they use it, so they find it if they want to do it again.

Also, almost everyone is aware of the strong addiction possible of heroin so many first time users know to be careful.

[carousel]

There's a commercial telling you to take a pill every three minutes - all it takes is taking one pill too soon to make you feel loopy or high. Amphetamines last for hours and they make you productive. People who smoke cigarettes aren't usually living on the street gathering up change for their habit. Plenty with a drinking problem can hold off until after work and wake up on time in the morning.

Those habits don't seem as unreal as supporting a 24'7 heroin habit. Especially if you've got money and tolerance isn't an issue yet. Nobody can possibly believe you can live a normal life nodding on heroin all the time. You must know what your getting into when you do H. But for someone who just got prescribed Ativan (which doesn't get media attention) it's easy to start taking too many. IMO, pills are the worse when it comes to believing that you actually need the high your getting. I know plenty of people who take silly amounts and believe they're really in pain or under anixety and it's OK.

[fiveleggedrat]

Tried twice. I also have a fear of harboring an H habit, so I didn't go back. I stick to my weaker opiates.

[Panthers007]

Bongo met up with his old girlfriend and a schoolchum - who was living with the Ho. They offered him some "Boy" as the current word was. He tried it. The first hit was free. When he refused a second one for cheap - they offered the second one free. Bongo glared at them. And left.

Bongo could understand the attraction. Rats could have bitten his kneecaps and he wouldn't have cared. He got the message.

[Lobsang]

According to Erowid and the National Survey on Drug Use and Health list of drugs "most likely to lead to regular use" Heroin is 9th!

Cigarettes, alcohol, weed, benzos, crack, stimulants/meth and coke all are above heroin.


Well the thing is there might be a lot of reasons why that might be true. But in any event heroin is extremely hard to get off of once a person is realy physically addicted. It is a very physcial addicition and also mental.

[Ididnotinhale]

Only aboput 20% of heroin users are addicts it is grossly blown out of proportions through the media and public stigmas

Where did swiy get that info. Just about everyone swim knows that has tried H has become addicted. If someone doesn't have easy access to it, and it just shows up once then they probably won't get addicted. On the other hand if H is all around and easy to find then addiction is very easy.

Lets say that it is only 20%, that still means that if someone is to use it once they have a 1 in 5 chance of ruining there life, just for one high.

If the average addict is addicted for 15 years. If that is averaged, that means using once averages to 3 years of addiction and a hellish life.

Heroin is worse than anyone can even imagine.

[msmogadon]

SWIM used first at 20 years old didn't use again for a while, used then didn't again for a whole (this was like a year nearly), used with the needle then never touched again for 2 years and then started using every day by smoking it.

there is no hard and fast route to addiction everyones path is individual

[infekt]

In Swim's opinion there is a HUGE difference between routes of administration, what people prefer. Swim did heroin a few times snorting it and left it alone for almost a year without even giving it a thought. The minute swim tried shooting up (just to see what it was like, since his girlfriend did it), the sky fell. The statistics don't talk about the difference.

[Lisa J]

Where SWIM lives it's as easy to get heroin as it is to get a bag of sugar! There are a lot of addicts and very few occasional users, it's like a plague and devastating communities.
Many people smoke the odd cigarette but don't take up smoking, we wouldn't suggest it isn't addictive because of that. SWIM has had periods in her life when she kept her heroin use under control (using no more than once a week) but it always became a full blown daily habit in the end. Some people can keep their use under control and they probably get more from heroin because of that, for most of us it soon turns into a nightmare of using more and more just to keep straight and getting high is just a distant memory.

[Number23]

Of course not every single person who uses is going to become a raging addict however every addiction starts somewhere and the advice I was given is dont try it if you are not prepared to like it, downers really are my drug of choice and i have had enough trouble with a psychological dependance on weed over the years to do myself a favour and not bother. However many others close to me did play with smack and not one of them has come out unscathed, some still use daily and others battle with wanting to use daily. The effects on the lives of individuals, families and comunities is as Lisa said devestating.
Looking back I feel my attitude to drugs was horribly naieve, that my life couldnt be touched by the negative consequences of hard drug use, because me and my friends used and didnt abuse, we made informed and considered choices about how when and what we used, but what if someone you care about (including yourself) makes a bad choice? Drugs can be fun , can be a really valid way of exploring yourself and the world around you, but it is also a really dangerous game with a really dark edge just waiting for you if you fuck up.
God i sound like the bearer of bad news and i dont want to piss on anyones bonfire, your choices are your own, but with hindsight i wish i had been a little more hard line and a little less floatey when it came to advising those close to me when it came to hard drugs.

[Ranke]

Swim first tried heroin when he was 16. On this occasion he smoked it. A few years later he moved in with roommates who used heroin. For a few months he used it without forming a physical dependence. But he did have a strong psychological desire to use more. After this he quit for a few months. When he got a job and could afford it again he began indulging. Soon he had a physical dependence and was doing a balloon a day.
Swim knows of many other people who do use heroin without becoming physically addicted. His best friend is one of them. He shot up his friend a few times and his friend has shown no desire to seek it out on his own.

[Junket]

I know about 6 people who use heroin.

4 of them are addicted to it.

The other 2 pop pills (oxy, hyrdocodone)

Opiates grab people like crazy.

[lonesomeheroes]

Tim Leary experimented with pure Heroin without becoming addicted. He flushed his supply down the toilet. It's in his autobiography, Flashbacks.

[Panthers007]

A certain Gorilla many here know of has tried heroin. He had some junkie-friends who were always trying to get him to try it. So he finally consented to snort the pile of powder they proffered. It was as advertised - "Poppies....pretty poppies...."

And that was the end of that. Despite the two junkies trying to get him to do more.

[elpatto]

SWIM has taken H a fair few times. The first time, SWIM tells me, it was completly accidental in taking the H, some guy sold pills that were a good strong dose of H, SWIM ate 2. Anyway SWIM survived although almost blacking completly out, but for the next 3 days had cold sweats, hot flushes, nausia, an almost every sign of withdrawl symptoms. It was some of the worst days in SWIM's life.

SWIM has also smoked H, opium, eaten oxyies but has never had the same problem. SWIM never mainlined because he has deep and almost skin coloured veins, honestly it takes a while for most medical practicioners or nurses to find a spot to needle SWIM.

Would one think that the purity of the Heroin would have anything to do with this?

[amadeusstoner]

In the lab it takes 3 shots a day for 2 weeks for any major withdraw symptoms to appear. (i read this somewhere when i was doing some major research on the topic.)

Now SWIM has been doing heroin for about 2 months now and he has smoked it, snorted it, and soon will be injecting it. Although he loves it he chooses not to become a slave to it, so the most he will do it is 2 nights in a row with about a three to four day break in between. He thinks that keeping strict limits to oneself is the key being that he has never had withdrawal symptoms (although he has felt quite groggy a few times the day after using before lol)

Ultimately it is harder then one would think to become physically addicted. Physical addiction comes with time and heavy use.

amadeusstoner added 2 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

Would one think that the purity of the Heroin would have anything to do with this?[/QUOTE]


yes the purity has alot to do with it.

amadeusstoner added 20 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...

There's a commercial telling you to take a pill every three minutes - all it takes is taking one pill too soon to make you feel loopy or high. Amphetamines last for hours and they make you productive. People who smoke cigarettes aren't usually living on the street gathering up change for their habit. Plenty with a drinking problem can hold off until after work and wake up on time in the morning.

Those habits don't seem as unreal as supporting a 24'7 heroin habit. Especially if you've got money and tolerance isn't an issue yet. Nobody can possibly believe you can live a normal life nodding on heroin all the time. You must know what your getting into when you do H. But for someone who just got prescribed Ativan (which doesn't get media attention) it's easy to start taking too many. IMO, pills are the worse when it comes to believing that you actually need the high your getting. I know plenty of people who take silly amounts and believe they're really in pain or under anixety and it's OK.

even hardcore heroin addicts can maintain a job. Look it up.

[Panthers007]

Sure. Many of Hitler's inner-circle were addicted to narcotics such as heroin - which was first synthesized in Germany in the 1880's. They, unfortunately, maintained a steady job.

[bcubed]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaote http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=122427#post122427)
Only aboput 20% of heroin users are addicts it is grossly blown out of proportions through the media and public stigmas

Where did swiy get that info. Just about everyone swim knows that has tried H has become addicted.

You realise, these aren't necessarily contradictory statments.

If you look at a cross-section in time, perhaps 20% of users are addicted. That doesn't mean, however, that some of the currently "non-addicted" weren't previously (or will eventually be) addicted.

Kinda like, if the unemployment rate is 6%, that DOESN'T mean that SWIY stands a 6% of EVER being unemployed!

Now that that bit of statistics is out of the way, lizard did H once (2 bags, insuffulated) and never again. He's also done poppy tea, opium, and various pharma opiates (both as prescribed and otherwise) without addiction.

Lizard has, however, been sufficiently addicted to alcohol to require medicated detox. Go figure.

[songcycle67]

Polls and surveys are infamously flawed ways of collecting data. Not many people are honest enough with themselves or care enough about the data to give a reliable answer.

SWIM has insufflated heroin about 4 times, however, over the period of a month, and has yet to be hooked on the stuff. Of course that may change should he cross paths with an abundance. And yeah, it was probably the best feeling he's ever felt in his entire life.

[Milk man]

Swim has tried H on multiple occasions. He isn't addicted on anything, never has, and (hopefully) never will. He has smoked it about 5 times. First time he was told it was opium :-(. Second time(about a month later) he was tricked into buy it(long story short, friend borrowed money which he didn't plan to pay back. Laughed when he got the balloon, was like haha (thought he was going to get it all to himself)....). 3-5 time(8 months later....) was from the 1 balloon. He thought the first time was the best. He didn't even get much euphoria from the 2,3,4 or even 5th time. Hasn't touched the stuff in about 3 months.

[Junket]

^ so your ...friends.... 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th time doing it was all the same h but it didn't give him much euphoria?

couldn't it of just been that it was a bad batch?

quitters never win mannnnnn

(kidding..

kinda)

[Milk man]

^ so your ...friends.... 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th time doing it was all the same h but it didn't give him much euphoria?

couldn't it of just been that it was a bad batch?

quitters never win mannnnnn

(kidding..

kinda)

The 2nd time was 8 months apart from the 3rd, 4th and 5th time. They were purchased in different towns, but could have been the same supplier. He was in the dream like state, but not the holy fuck this feels good kind of feeeling. He remembers doing a little little bit, maybe .01g and got a small euphoria(was smoking out the guy who got him the stuff) for maybe 5-10 mins. The 5th time he did too much, he wanted to get rid of it. Probably did .05/.06...he wasn't feeling too well after that.

His friend got addicted...but doesn't use anymore.

And the guy he got from the 3rd/4th/5th time got addicted to the shit too.
It could be bad, but he doubts it.

[stephy171072]

I wish I could raise my hand but sadly I can't, however the person that I started taking the H with only tried it a few times then stayed away from it and I don't see him ever getting a habbit.

[c17h21no4]

swim can raise hes hand.
swim tried to lower he's meth tolerance by taking something pleasurable for a few days.
he thought shooting h was nice but ... he's mind wanted to party so here is an example of how you can do it without getting addicted. get addicted to meth then try h , the chances of you getting addicted to h are pretty slim :).
* the get addicted to meth part was a joke , make sure you have no way of getting another dose the next day or something , stay safe*

[bennett211085]

SWIM smoked heroin once when he was about 16, he remembers he wanted to do it again, but didnt.

[Jamal]

Yeah, SWIM has had heroin a few times and so have a few of his friends. None of them have ever felt even close to being addicted. They do it once and then don't touch it for months. There's loads of different drugs out there - why stick to one so dangerous?

The hit, though, is extremely nice.

[dyingtomorrow]

SWIM fucked around with H for a while before getting addicted. SWIM also shared heroin with a couple of his friends many times (albiet spaced out over time), and they actually didn't really like it, if you can believe that shit! (then again they were more the speed types)

SWIM thinks it doesn't happen unless you do it 3 days in a row. Maybe 2. Only then does it get it's hooks in your brain, and you're fucked. As long as you keep a couple days in between H sessions you'll be fine.

[Handle]

In the lab it takes 3 shots a day for 2 weeks for any major withdraw symptoms to appear. (i read this somewhere when i was doing some major research on the topic.)

Now SWIM has been doing heroin for about 2 months now and he has smoked it, snorted it, and soon will be injecting it. Although he loves it he chooses not to become a slave to it, so the most he will do it is 2 nights in a row with about a three to four day break in between. He thinks that keeping strict limits to oneself is the key being that he has never had withdrawal symptoms (although he has felt quite groggy a few times the day after using before lol)

Ultimately it is harder then one would think to become physically addicted. Physical addiction comes with time and heavy use.

amadeusstoner added 2 Minutes and 48 Seconds later...

Would one think that the purity of the Heroin would have anything to do with this?


yes the purity has alot to do with it.

amadeusstoner added 20 Minutes and 2 Seconds later...



even hardcore heroin addicts can maintain a job. Look it up.[/quote]








Hmm, yes, about the nazis first up, I heard that what'se, the fat one, had a big morphine/methadone habit and it was the only way he could function.

What was the fat nazi again? He had a big moustache.

Anyway, the word of warning I give in response to this is, think about that example, 3 shots a day for two weeks.

HAve you really heard of junkiedom starting out like that? [No disrespect, but seriously]

First of all I would say that dose and admin route have this slow upwards slant until they are hard core. Admittedly, many people do have this strange complacency about needles, and many people strangely have their first hit as an injection [which seems odd to me, but from personal anecdote I've heard many people were confronted with a barrel of hammer spiking in their face and their answer was 'yeah I'll give it a go, tie me up!' mad but true]

Anyway, it often goes like this, eat snort smoke inject.
Muscle, skin pop mainline.



And it has a massive lead/lag period, totally unlike stimulants [in my own opinion]

Many a time I've heard of someone saying "I first had meth, then degenerated into an immediate four day binge coming off the back end of the party where I first tried it"

Like it comes on sudden.

But HEAPS of people fool themselves bout hammer. They're like "Eh, take it or leave it" I remember my swims first comment about it was, [insanely] "it gets a bad rap"

Yeah, right.

If you have the type, you can go six months, a year before really coming back on and getting into it.

People think they try it, then forget it. Not true, in my personal opinion. Junk time lingers, it waits as patiently for us as we for it.

There's not much more sense I can say right now, but I mean, there is often a llllllllllllllonnnnnnnnnnng, very long lead in period between first hits and heavy habits.

You don't forget it so easy [in my opinion]

By the way, notice two things. Steady jobs are very much compatible with heroin habits, because they give an income to provide the heroin. Unfortunately a ragin habit is not so friendly to our feeble human drive to work, indeed can bloody well get in the way.

Another thing is --notice how keen junkies are to spread the joy? It is a very Burroughsian thing I notice, that the lowest downs on the pyramid are active recruiters to the cause, they know that even an extra mouth to feed notwithstanding, deep down in their cells they know that broadening the base works in the interests of their lord and mastah, heroin.

[fiveleggedrat]

In the lab it takes 3 shots a day for 2 weeks for any major withdraw symptoms to appear

God, no wonder people become addicted when there is info like this out there.

3 days of steady use. That's all it takes.

[Handle]

All I'm saying is, bringing about a state of verifiable physical addiction that manifests symptoms upon withdrawal is one thing, sowing the long slow quiet subtle seeds of an eventual revisit and possibly long road to addiction is another.

[Dickon]

Not me!! [keeps hand firmly down] I started with morphine, so by the time I used heroin I was already an addict! It takes months of use to get a first habit [I've heard 3 months i.v 6 months s.c. 12 months oral] I came off pretty easily after 12 months oral use. But after habit one, 14 days or so daily use is enough to re-establish a habit, and it is very hard to come back from one use at that point.

I think a far more interesting question is : who has used heroin for the first time 10 years ago or more, and has never between then and now got a habit. Anyone in that situation, my hat's off to you. If you liked it you are either incredibly lucky or possess a discipline I've yet to encounter in all but a Zen master. If you tried it once or twice and didn't like it then you're still incredibly lucky. A lot of junkies didn't like their first hit or two.

To all you lucky ones who have so far not been caught in heroin (or any other opiate)'s claws. TURN BACK NOW!!! please: heed my words. There's a (not so?) small country-full of addicts who started off "being careful", "only using at weekends", or who "would stop using before it became a problem". I think I'm seeing a lot of walking clichees, and I am shedding tears. I know you won't listen, but it was over 20 years since I first met temptress-opium. Oh she was so beautiful in those days, enticing, mystical, archetypical, sexy, dangerous, seducing, soft and cooing, but it's only been 60 hours since I managed to get this suppurating vile she-male's dick out of my ass. It was never going to happen to me!! It did!! I am not the exception!! Is it worth the risk!! You're clever than me (maybe you are, but I do have two degrees from Oxford and a PhD in pure maths, so maybe you're not), and chances are if you are 10 times clever than me it will not make one jot or iota of difference. Addicts have on average higher than average I.Q.s.

[D crosses fingers and disappears sadly knowing nothing will deter others, as nothing detered him]

D

[Handle]

Hmm, I support those last comments.

More like "who has used heroin once more than ten years ago and hasn't used it again since"

You'd get very different answers from people who are saying "yeah I'm not addicted, but often the max period I hear after first use is six months to 2 years, but then the winning streak ends, and use begins."

You [above] also have two interesting Burroughsian references 1: The strong belief that it is far easier for a former user to re-establish an old addiction with very little use than it is for a first timer to start a new one.

Second Burroughsian reference? SUPPURATING! I love a suppurating anything...I still haven't found out the exact meaning, indeed I'm happy not knowing because it just becomes an umbrella term for vile and disgusting.

[Dickon]

I'm a pathological lier, so caveat lector (smiles)

Handle,

I am very impressed, because although I have read a lot of Burroughs I didn't think I was refering to him except possibly for the 3 6 12 months, for i.v,s.c,oral use. I certainly did read his theory on habit re-establishment, before I had my first one, but I would also base it on experience, at least I think so. I remember a couple of times after over a year's abstinence saying to myself I will use opiates once a week at most. I never lasted the week, always 5 to 6 days. 5 became 4 became 3 became 2 became 1, but I was hooked by the time I was using every 3rd day, possibly earlier, so that when the 3rd day came arround there was no way I could last out until the fourth. OK I hear some wise-guy say "ahh....that must be psychological not physical addiction". To which I answer, I'm not so sure (I once did a cluck (English word for w.d.)) when I'd been using every other day except for maybe 3 consecutive days and that was, I kid you not, a full on cluck (in truth not a bad one, I went to Crete and hot weather clucks are far better than cold weather ones in my opinion, but still hell on earth for 6 days or so). I was fine, as you can no doubt imagine until 48 hours after using my last dose of oral morphine. I don't know what would happen if I used ever 3rd day and stopped. I'd guess somewhere between 2 1/2 - 5 days interval would be the minimum required. I'm talkin about oral morphine here, but heroin and morphine are essentially the same (in that heroin is simply better able to cross the blood-brain barrier where in a manner of minutes it's converted into God's own medicine). Obviously with methadone, I wouldn't be surprised if you used it once a week that you'd get a habit, assuming your body knows what a habit is and slips into it's old modus vivendi like into an old overcoat (since we're in a Burroughs mood). I've never tried the experiment of using 14 days consecutively after cleaning up, and then quitting. But even if there weren't any physical withdrawals (and this I seriously doubt) the psychological ones would still bitch slap-you into next month. Personally I used to dwell on the difference between physical and psychological w.d.s but as I get older and wiser (ha ha) I don't think they are actually distinct, and there is a lot of overlap, if not identity. Even in a full on turkey, if you set your mind right you stop feeling w.d.s. I bet all of you who've done a cluck will remember some 2 minutes when you suddenly become interested in something else, and for those 2 minutes you are simply not aware of w.d.s. If people can have surgery with only hypnosis for an anaesthetic, it strikes me as hard to say that the pain of being cut open is only psychological, and by thinking right can be avoided. But surely in some-way this is what is being said. By the same token I believe the same can be done for w.d.s. OK we're probably not Zen masters, but I know if I think positive my w.d.s are far less than if I'm moping a pool of self-indulgence. I'm sure that's why for me the nights are far harder than the days. It's much easier to distract yourself in the day.

So as it's not yet 6 in the morning, and there's no light outside, and I'm not going to be blessed with any more sleep, I'm just going to throw a slightly tangential but still thread-related idea out into the ether on a Burroughs theme, sort of. What do you folk out there think about the following statement. (Up to your physical type. i.e. different people respond differently) Is the amount/duration of withdrawal some kind of mathematical function, or are there ways to cheat the piper of his pay? [If you're mathematically minded the function would be the integral of severity-of-withdrawal over time. If you're not I roughly mean that I count 8 days of intensity 10 withdrawals to be the same as 4 days of intensity 20 withdrawals, or 1 day of intensity 80 w.d.s etc. Of course each day's severity would be different, but you get the idea I hope] I've heard stories (which are completely alien to my own experience) of people quitting without pain after a spiritual experience, this I believe is the theory behind Ibogain treatment. I've had brief, very brief, respite from using after taking LSD, so I am inclined to believe that there's no reason, in principal, why w.d.s have to be so nasty, and it is only a matter of time before someone will figure out some kind of medical protocol to eliminate all or all-but-all w.d.s (Ibogain folk and 5-day-detox folk say they have. But Ibogain is not a magic bullet, and I've heard horror stories that make my skin crawl about the 5-day thing). I think alpha-2-adrenergic-agonists actually diminish the value of the integral (i.e. the total withdrawal suffered), rather than lengthen the base, and shorten the height (i.e convert a 5 day bad cluck into a 10 day 1/2-as-bad one).

Until the day the magical medical protocal is established (and when it comes I wonder how many are going to use today because it's just so damn easy to quit tomorrow!), let me repeat my parot-like message.

Don't find out if you're the exception that proves the rule. It is not a normal well-adjusted thing to take smack. A contented man doesn't wake up in the morning and think, hmmm, I'm going to take some heroin today. By the time you've taken it once (unless you can honestly say it is a one-time experiment, and that undertaken from a position of rock-solid self-discipline, spiritual practice, scientific method, etc. etc. Most importantly there must be a damn good reason, not just "I want to see what it does") you've joined the ranks of the oddballs. So STAY AWAY, and if you're lucky enough to still not owe-this-demonic-pied-piper his dues, RUN AWAY FAST, and never look back!!! [pretty polly, pretty polly. Dr D repeats his vain bleetings]

Opiates are too-nice. Oh and by the way, suppurating, is used to describe sores that are oozing puss. I'm not sure if I got that from burroughs but I know one or two words on a good day!

Thinks to self : well that killed an hour of withdrawal sickness. One less to get through: begs peoples' indulgence for writing at such length, but explains he has just tapered off 225mg methadone, and is only 73 hours from his last dose, so I've got to look after number 1 for a few days yet [that 3rd person turned 1st in mid stream! lol]. I at least hope what I write is less-than-pandiculation(yawning)-inducing, at least for the intelligent out there. I'm absolutely certain that if you put any single person in the world in a room with me, there is something I know and they don't. So just ask if you're intrigued. Anyway, all you have to do is not read my scrawls if they baffle/bemuse/annoy/etc.

Tea, biscuits, puppies, and kittens(the very cutest little fluffy ones) to all who deserve them, and rasperies and kicks to everyone's monkeys (however sweet and innocent and small they might now seem)

Dr D [toddles off zombie-like but smiling to ghost through another day of junk-sickness, whistling a happy tune]